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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 19 2004, 02:59 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
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Member No.: 139
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Considering a big-block swap? I'm told that by doing nothing more than switching one mount bracket to the other side of the block lugs, it will bolt to a small-block K-frame like it was born there. In fact, a guy on a different board just did this on his '73 Charger (which uses the same spool-type small-block mounts as F/J/M-cars).
Here's a partial shot of a 400HP engine I pulled from a '78 Cordoba, concentrating on the LH motor mount, of course. Notice it's the same spool-type arrangement we're used to:
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 19 2004, 03:01 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
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Member No.: 139
Joined: 2-May 04
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Here's a big-block 1973-79 B-body K-member... those mounting tabs should look familiar to anyone who's ever had the engine out of their M-body:
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Reggie |
| Posted: May 19 2004, 04:02 PM |
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M-Body Nut
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| QUOTE (Dr.Jass @ May 19 2004, 03:59 PM) | Considering a big-block swap? I'm told that by doing nothing more than switching one mount bracket to the other side of the block lugs, it will bolt to a small-block K-frame like it was born there. In fact, a guy on a different board just did this on his '73 Charger (which uses the same spool-type small-block mounts as F/J/M-cars).
Here's a partial shot of a 400HP engine I pulled from a '78 Cordoba, concentrating on the LH motor mount, of course. Notice it's the same spool-type arrangement we're used to: |
So for the BB swap, you would just relocate the mounts to the front side of the block lugs based on the shown? Kewl.  Good info as usual Dr. Jass. - RR
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1900 - "I'm goin' to see a man about a horse...."
Today - "I'm goin' to see a man about some horsepower...." |
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| Marshall |
 Posted: May 19 2004, 04:57 PM |
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Squad Car Guru
Group: Members
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Good stuff Dr.Jass!
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'82 A38 Dodge Diplomat X Prince William County VA PD 318 2 Barrel
'88 AMC Eagle SW X Baltimore County Maryland PD 258 2 Barrel
'89 AHB Plymouth Gran Fury X Richmond Virginia PD 318 4 Barrel
'89 AHB Dodge Diplomat X West Virginia State Police 318 4 Barrel |
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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 19 2004, 05:18 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
Posts: 188
Member No.: 139
Joined: 2-May 04
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| QUOTE (Reggie @ May 19 2004, 04:02 PM) | | So for the BB swap, you would just relocate the mounts to the front side of the block lugs...? |
Actually, if memory serves, it only has to be done on the passenger's side. The driver's side is a drop-in.
I may dump a 400-based stroker in my LeBaron at some future point after I've pushed the 318 to its limit... maybe next year.
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Reggie |
| Posted: May 20 2004, 12:47 PM |
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M-Body Nut
Group: Moderators
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| QUOTE (Dr.Jass @ May 19 2004, 06:18 PM) | | I may dump a 400-based stroker in my LeBaron at some future point after I've pushed the 318 to its limit... maybe next year. |
Kewl!
Do you plan on using that '78 Cordoba 400 in the pic for your stroker? Are you planning a 451 or 470? That setup should really fly in that 2-DR body. Better keep a spare set of Fruit of the Looms handy!  - RR
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1900 - "I'm goin' to see a man about a horse...."
Today - "I'm goin' to see a man about some horsepower...." |
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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 20 2004, 01:49 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
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No, I still have the complete '72 400 Magnum out of my Road Runner... I'll be using that. I think I have that 400 in the picture sold, actually... a feller from another board tells me he's coming to pick it up on Saturday. If not... I could always put it in the Fifth Ave.... hmmm.... nah. 
I plan on doing a 474, though originally I was all about the 499. More cubes are always better, but I changed my mind after looking into the differences in rotating and reciprocating masses. The 499 would surely make more torque, but the 474 acts like an enormous 340... and I like 340s. I'd probably lose to an identical 499 but I think I'll enjoy the quick revs of the 474.
Nothing cast in stone yet top-end wise, I'm just sure it'll be a pump-gas 474-cube 400... backed up with a 4-speed.
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Diplomat360 |
| Posted: May 20 2004, 06:21 PM |
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Dippy God
Group: Members
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Thanks Reggie....yeah, I got pretty excited...was sitting on the "throne" when all of a sudden I start reading the letter section and think to myself "...gee...that sounds pretty familiar..." LOL....almost fell off the crapper!!!
Jass:
Talking about the stroker combos, etc....how do plan on hooking all the power to the ground? Certainly slicks, if not maybe mini-tubs? I have been thinking of doing that...not ready yet, but when the time comes I'm not quite sure how I'd need to modify the back end...
For my part I wish I started gathering parts for my combo like a year or 2 later...would have probably gone with the 408 stroker....
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1980 Dodge Diplomat Coupe, 360-4bbl, 727, 3.91 SG motivated sleeper!
1981 Dodge Diplomat Coupe, /6 38K mi. survivor car, awaiting restoration.
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| Wild1_Robertson |
| Posted: May 21 2004, 04:25 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
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Joined: 11-May 04
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| QUOTE (Dr.Jass @ May 20 2004, 01:49 PM) |
I plan on doing a 474, though originally I was all about the 499. More cubes are always better, but I changed my mind after looking into the differences in rotating and reciprocating masses. The 499 would surely make more torque, but the 474 acts like an enormous 340... and I like 340s. I'd probably lose to an identical 499 but I think I'll enjoy the quick revs of the 474.
Nothing cast in stone yet top-end wise, I'm just sure it'll be a pump-gas 474-cube 400... backed up with a 4-speed. |
Hi in the Challenger i just sold I built up a nice 451 but I would change a few things I used ARIAS forged pistions E4711030 with Reverse deflector tops they had a lot of slop i used it as a daily driver and at 25K miles or so had visable groves on 2 cylinders and low compresssion on 3 cylinders.. I have a few 400s laying around one is for the power wagon.
Here is driving empressions from the 451 WOW it revs fast and was strong over 4 K after the 3 rd time the heads were ported ( first when I got them the 906s had a port 2nd I put the larger valves in that you can run with a 451 then I ported them and the team g intake and WOW)
plan for power wagon is Keith Black pistons and for now ported 906s what heads are you planing to run on the 474 ?
If i could get a 451 smoged in my 89 dip  |
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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 21 2004, 08:31 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
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Member No.: 139
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Arias pistons are notorious for piston slap, particularly when cold... but that loose fit sure helps at 7,500 RPM.  Under no circumstance would I ever put a hypereutectic piston in a serious performance effort. For a truck? OK... A daily-driver with some oats? Fine... but if I'm dropping more than a grand in the short block, it's forged or go home. For me to fully explain this to you would require me to have two things: a videotape of a certain LA360 I watched come apart on the dyno, where two rods, a piston, and a large chunk of crankshaft made a hasty retreat from the dyno cell through a cinder-block wall; and the apparently-successfully-buried TRW Engineering paper, done prior to the Federal-Mogul buyout, explaining why TRW would never manufacture a hypereutectic piston. It was very enlightening, somewhat-technical SAE-type stuff.... Of course, once Fed-Mog bought TRW lock stock and barrel, all those guys were canned--and the paper seems to have mysteriously disappeared from the face of the planet. 
For the moment, my only plans for the rear suspension (when I upgrade to a big-block) include a leaf-spring relocation into the rails, a set of Super Stock springs, and my trusty adjustable snubber. The leaf-spring move allows some truly-enormous rubber to be fitted without mini-tubbing or other molestation. I might trim the wheel lip a tad, too. I have a friend clocking 11.20s in a pump-gas 500-inch Charger with just such an arrangment and sticky D.O.T. tires. I'd be happy to go that fast! If I somehow find that I'm getting beyond my ability to hook up, I'd probably look into a leaf-link arrangement... ladder bars and four-links are getting a little beyond my intentions. This is, and will remain, a driveable street effort.
I don't plan to run slicks, as I like my performance numbers to be real-world. To me, it's no fun telling people at a cruise-in you ran 11.90s if you did it on race gas & slicks, with the exhaust uncapped, half the interior removed, and the swaybars disconnected. If you can't duplicate it on a moment's notice--on the street--in my opinion, it's wasted effort unless you're seriously bracket-racing your street rig.
As far as the top end goes, I'm really not sure yet...My mind says "Barton-gutted Indy 440-1 heads and a ridiculous single-plane with about 1000CFM worth of HP Series Holley!"...
My heart says "Max-ported MP Stage 6 heads with a mechanical-secondary Six Pack setup!"--gotta love that look, and just such a setup gave me some great 1/4-mile times in my '72 Charger...
My wallet says "Look forward to an awful lot of time in the garage with the die grinder, bur bits, and sanding rolls, playing with a set of factory 452 castings, Chuckles..."
My fiancee says "You'd better be damned happy with that 318, bucksnort--because I don't want my wedding reception to double as my retirement party." Time will tell, I guess... if I don't find a job soon, one of you guys is gonna pick up the whole of my stash at a price that'll make you feel guilty. 
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Diplomat360 |
| Posted: May 21 2004, 10:06 PM |
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Dippy God
Group: Members
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Hmmm....I can understand your reasonning behind not wanting to do anything "drastic" to the rear end...and I partially agree....but if you do come to a point where you just can't make 'em hook...well, you need to find a way to do so.
Here's what I'm basing my musings on...previously, my other coupe had a mildly built 360 motor....3.55 SG rear end, about 2700 stall converter...it was a fast, fun daily driver. My problem always was trying to hook it nice...the back end would tend to move on me (could have been axle alignment though), but mostly I would get a lot of wheel spin. I was running 255/60-15 tires, so not the biggest meat you can stuff under there by any means...
With my current build I have not really done anything different to the rear suspension setup...but the driventrain combo is much stouter. A 360 with a 3200 converter and 3.91 SG rear. I am pretty certain there will be traction problems...maybe this is something that a DOT approved slick would help out with...not sure...I have never ran these kind of tires before....but if the tire makes the difference and I do not have to re-engineer the rear suspension I have to say I'm inclined to give them a try.
As to the hyperutectic comment...I'll let you know how it comes along!  I'm running the Sterling H116CP piston, and I really do not see the problem with doing so. I do not plan on running nitrous, and if anything, would think that the real tight cylinder bore to piston skirt clearance would help tremendously in keeping the piston rings square , which by itself goes a long way to making power. Out of curiosity, what exactly caused the dyno engine to blow?
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1980 Dodge Diplomat Coupe, 360-4bbl, 727, 3.91 SG motivated sleeper!
1981 Dodge Diplomat Coupe, /6 38K mi. survivor car, awaiting restoration.
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| Dr.Jass |
| Posted: May 21 2004, 10:15 PM |
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Dippy Junkie
Group: Members
Posts: 188
Member No.: 139
Joined: 2-May 04
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Too much timing. Admittedly, it was an 11-second motor, but still... what would have caused a divot in the crown of a normal cast piston caused the hypereutectic(s) to explode.
One thing that makes a huge difference in traction, that not a lot of guys think about, is eliminating the iso-clamp setup on the rear of these cars. It's great for a nice ride, but it screws with the handling (as does the oval front spring eye) and makes for some groovy disco-rrific butt-sway motions out of the rear. It really hampers hooking up on the launch, too, since the rear isn't solidly anchored to the spring. If you don't eliminate it, at least get the polyurethane or polygraphite pillows, and run a couple of bolts through the holes in the oval spring bushing to stiffen it up some... both make a noticeable difference.
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1981 LeBaron coupe 318-4v, 4-speed, 3.91 Powr-Lok 8-3/4"
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| Bobbo |
| Posted: May 27 2005, 07:23 PM |
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This sites "LOOK AT ME" guy a.k.a village idiot!&#
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yep... still got no way to contact them...j/j im bumping the post due to bb swap info
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Im the village idiot!!! Mark says so!!!! |
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| Bobbo |
| Posted: Aug 12 2005, 06:45 PM |
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This sites "LOOK AT ME" guy a.k.a village idiot!&#
Group: Members
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big block in possesion.
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Im the village idiot!!! Mark says so!!!! |
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| Marshall |
| Posted: Aug 13 2005, 11:09 AM |
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Squad Car Guru
Group: Members
Posts: 1926
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Joined: 30-January 04
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| QUOTE (Bobbo @ Aug 12 2005, 06:45 PM) | | big block in possesion. |
Good to hear Bobbo!
(Sounds like you're gonna' be having some fun there, man!)
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'82 A38 Dodge Diplomat X Prince William County VA PD 318 2 Barrel
'88 AMC Eagle SW X Baltimore County Maryland PD 258 2 Barrel
'89 AHB Plymouth Gran Fury X Richmond Virginia PD 318 4 Barrel
'89 AHB Dodge Diplomat X West Virginia State Police 318 4 Barrel |
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