Post by: fjbfour on February 19, 2011, 13:59:28
I apologize for the recent four-day outage of the site. It seems like for the past few years I was not catching that the hosting renewal was due until (after) the last second. Last time it happened, I made sure to enable auto-renew. As fate would have it, the associated credit card expired before the next renewal, hence the outage that happened while I was offline for a week. The outage attracted more attention than I expected, with emails rolling in and comments of concern made on other boards.
It is no secret that I have been unable to put as much time into Farley's Page as I used to. I had one child when this place started up in mid-1997, I now have six children. This is representative of how my priorities have changed. Farley's Page has not seen any kind of significant attention and has remained essentially static for over five years. As most of you probably also know, I no longer own Farley. He's been with kevnski3 since late 2006 (where he was given an engine transplant, receiving a new 318 from an '89 car), and soon should be moving into the custody of FifthAveCowboy (who has initial plans to do some body restoration). Where Farley goes after that is up to FAC, but I'll vote on it if I am asked to. Anyway... in addition, I now own a 1970 American LaFrance fire engine from my childhood hometown, which carries quite a bit more sentimental value for me than Farley does - and that is really saying something, because Farley is dear to me. There's a little blog about the fire engine, but no exhaustive web site. I don't have time for that.
In any case, the recent outage brought in emails, one of which was from the staff at Allpar.com (formerly Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge Central), concerned about the status and security of the site, hoping the content was not lost if it never came back. This started an exchange which ultimately resulted in my decision to sell the Farley's Page web site to Allpar. This was not a huge moneymaker thing for me, but they did offset some of the expected future revenue that the main site's ad banners generated. Money was not as important to me as was the security of the future of this site and the content it includes, representing hundreds of hours of effort from not just myself but numerous others, particularly our forum moderators Reggie and Mike (a couple of great guys who the Allpar staff sincerely hopes will remain involved here). Allpar has been around even longer than Farley's Page, and represents ironclad stability that is hard to find anywhere else.
So this is the don't freak out part. Stay calm.
I will let Dave from Allpar chime in here on this thread when he gets a chance, to provide additional details, and to answer your questions. But here are some things that will come up as a result of the change:
* The site address of dippy.org and its forum will remain, as it is a recognized "brand", so to speak. Allpar visitors who click into Diplomat-related stuff there will end up at dippy.org.
* No immediate changes to the forum, probably will stay on SMF as long as possible.
* Probable integration of Allpar's existing F/J/M forum content into this forum. I suspect they may also be able to merge the years of content from the old dippy.org forum into this current one as well.
* Better/faster future forum maintenance and software upgrades (which probably will result in better spam prevention controls, too)
* The long-delayed major cosmetic upgrade to the entire site that I had planned yet never could make time for, which was going to include a conversion from the current white-on-black to a black-on-white theme, will finally get done at some point down the road.
I know this is a big change, but Allpar recognizes Farley's Page and dippy.org as a great resource, a very strong and above-average online community, and sincerely does not want to rock that boat and unsettle its stability. Allpar wants all of you guys to be happy, because the community is what made Farley's Page so good, and running anyone off with wholesale change is not at all in their interest.
I've babbled long enough. Questions, comments, concerns, complaints, rants... feel free to post all your thoughts, and Dave and I will try to address them as we are able to.
Thanks you guys for everything you've done, and for your support over all this time.
- Frank
Post by: 270SE on February 19, 2011, 14:06:50
I hope to see dippy.org stay like it is. Other parts probably need revision, but it's great the access it has.
Post by: Ark on February 19, 2011, 14:43:08
At least you didn't sell the site to Moparts...:D
Post by: 79dodge4ever on February 19, 2011, 15:05:32
was going to include a conversion from the current white-on-black to a black-on-white theme, will finally get done at some point down the road.
- Frank
I think the black background and white letter theme is much much easier on the eyes then most white website pages, I'm sure other upgrades would be great, but the black background is good too IMO
Post by: spike on February 19, 2011, 15:22:53
was going to include a conversion from the current white-on-black to a black-on-white theme, will finally get done at some point down the road.
- Frank
I think the black background and white letter theme is much much easier on the eyes then most white website pages, I'm sure other upgrades would be great, but the black background is good too IMO
gotta agree on this, the black on white is much easier on the eyes
Post by: S-type on February 19, 2011, 15:31:35
Thanks you guys for everything you've done, and for your support over all this time.Thank you, Frank.
Post by: MyDodgeDip on February 19, 2011, 17:06:30
was going to include a conversion from the current white-on-black to a black-on-white theme, will finally get done at some point down the road.
- Frank
I think the black background and white letter theme is much much easier on the eyes then most white website pages, I'm sure other upgrades would be great, but the black background is good too IMO
gotta agree on this, the black on white is much easier on the eyes
As a frequent user of here and allpar I will also agree that the black background and white letters is a ton easier to read and makes things much easier on the eyes, I'd hate losing that aspect of this forum. I also think this forum is easier to search but then again I'm still getting used to the new allpar format. Took me a day or 2 to figure out that the "forum search" was on the bottom of the page instead of the top where it used to be. :D Still didn't find the advanced search yet.
Post by: M_Body_Coupe on February 19, 2011, 17:42:35
Given the community that we have developed here I would have been much happier to turn the dippy.org site into a club type of a thing that remains a distinct forum. Now...don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Allpar, they are a well recognized name in the Mopar hobby, but all of us have put some time into making this place what it is today and given the choice (this is what was lacking dearly) I would have wanted us to remain on our own. I am absolutely sure there is enough IS expertise here to maintain the site for many many years to come.
Either way...Frank, thank you for all your time, effort and contributions.
Post by: Ice Cold on February 19, 2011, 18:05:44
Talking about M Lebaron's "Wipers parked under the hood, and cleaned 98% of the significant viewing area of the windshield" :doh:
Dodge Diplomat, Plymouth Gran Fury, Chrysler Lebaron, Town & Country, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, and Caravelle are a group and then you have a 'Introduction to the Plymouth Volare, Dodge Aspen, and Chrysler LeBaron'
Owwwwww!!!!! :whak:
Post by: spike on February 19, 2011, 18:07:11
It doesn't reallly matter to me as long as the site works. I don't go over to Allpar, due to hurting myself w/ facepalms when I read some of their stuff about M's. They try though.
Talking about M Lebaron's "Wipers parked under the hood, and cleaned 98% of the significant viewing area of the windshield" :doh:
Dodge Diplomat, Plymouth Gran Fury, Chrysler Lebaron, Town & Country, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, and Caravelle are a group and then you have a 'Introduction to the Plymouth Volare, Dodge Aspen, and Chrysler LeBaron'
Owwwwww!!!!! :whak:
i dont go on allpar at all but :doh:
Post by: Ice Cold on February 19, 2011, 19:59:25
Well, I'll be the voice of dissent then...in all honesty I feel like I've been 'sold' with the rest of the flock...sorry, but yeah, that's putting it bluntly. Given the community we have here, this should have been put to VOTE Frank. I realize you own the site, were the registered domain name holder, etc, etc...but let's be honest, what makes the site what it is are the people who come here, not just the 'dippy.org' name.Inside ownership might have been nicer,but one of the reasons I'm here....no one is really rich $$. :whist: :doh: At least that I know.
Given the community that we have developed here I would have been much happier to turn the dippy.org site into a club type of a thing that remains a distinct forum. Now...don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Allpar, they are a well recognized name in the Mopar hobby, but all of us have put some time into making this place what it is today and given the choice (this is what was lacking dearly) I would have wanted us to remain on our own. I am absolutely sure there is enough IS expertise here to maintain the site for many many years to come.
Either way...Frank, thank you for all your time, effort and contributions.
If we had big $, we'd all have new Challengers and 408's in our M's. :whist: Dunno what the price for the board was, but it's more than $50.
Post by: M_Body_Coupe on February 19, 2011, 20:25:30
Inside ownership might have been nicer,but one of the reasons I'm here....no one is really rich $$. :whist: :doh: At least that I know.
If we had big $, we'd all have new Challengers and 408's in our M's. :whist: Dunno what the price for the board was, but it's more than $50.
Let's not kid ourselves, hosting isn't all that expensive, here is the link (http://totalchoicehosting.com/web-hosting-plans.html (http://totalchoicehosting.com/web-hosting-plans.html)) to the company hosting dippy.org domain...quite affordable I would say.
As Frank pointed out many times in the past, advertising apparently pays for it all...
Anyways, only one question remains in my mind: rights to the information (primarily photos) that each one of us may have uploaded/attached in various posts in the past...does this all become property of Allpar now?
I specifically ask this because of the following Allpar 'Terms of Use' (http://www.allpar.com/i/terms.html (http://www.allpar.com/i/terms.html)), in particular this section:
'...Copyright and license
The materials and information on the sites are protected by copyright and/or other intellectual property laws. Any unauthorized use may violate such laws. Except as expressly provided herein, Allpar and any other writers or copyright or trademark holders do not grant any express or implied right to you under any patents, copyrights, trademarks, or trade secret information with respect to the Materials, information, and services.
Except as specifically permitted herein, no portion of the information or documents on the Sites may be reproduced in any form or by any means without the prior written permission of Allpar. This includes, but is not limited to, "reprinting" on the Web, in newsgroups, and in mailing lists....'
Sooo....anyone else concerned here? I think all of a sudden our IP (intellectual property) is someone else's...that's what does not sit right with me!!!
Frank/Dave, you guys need to explain please...if I'm overreacting, great...but I want to know.
Post by: Ice Cold on February 19, 2011, 20:58:19
The hosting is nothing and the couple ads pay for it AFAIK. It's the 'what's it worth' part. :umm: I saw it was quoted as a $5000 board by some net geeks. Dunno what the price was? :umm:
Post by: Malcolm from Canada on February 19, 2011, 22:19:46
Just make sure you retain Reggie and Mike, as they really carry the load around here.
My two cents and best of luck Frank and thanks for doing everything you've done for us over the years.
Happy trails
Malcolm
Post by: Nickdalzell on February 19, 2011, 22:21:16
Post by: 270SE on February 19, 2011, 22:25:58
The site needs someone to eat costs. The whole donations thing is nice but pay-to-play isn't. The problem with donations is they don't happen often enough so someone has to pay the rest...
Post by: Reggie on February 19, 2011, 22:32:26
just so long as it does not become as G-rated as Allpar. that site was fun until the humor became against the rules. i hardly go there any more except to post in the AMC forum. :hmm:
Well, "Henny Penny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny)", you went there long enough to get us sold down the river..... :roll:
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/132170-slightly-ot-farleys-m-body-forum-down-completely/
Post by: 270SE on February 19, 2011, 22:35:06
Post by: Nickdalzell on February 19, 2011, 22:41:45
@Reggie, i had nothing to do with selling this site. i think that was Frank's decision, i am a M-body owner, not a moderator! i was posting there about why the forum was down as 1) i had no access, and 2) a few Allpar regulars (Dobamark for one) post here too. so i figured they would know what was going on as i had a 'Account Suspended' tab in my browser and thought i went overboard (again)
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2011, 22:56:41
who me? i just hit 'reply!'
@Reggie, i had nothing to do with selling this site. i think that was Frank's decision, i am a M-body owner, not a moderator! i was posting there about why the forum was down as 1) i had no access, and 2) a few Allpar regulars (Dobamark for one) post here too. so i figured they would know what was going on as i had a 'Account Suspended' tab in my browser and thought i went overboard (again)
I find it strange that you gave us a nice break from the craziness for a couple of months and when you came back all these issues came up. You're bad luck man :blink:
Post by: Reggie on February 19, 2011, 23:03:58
Post by: Ark on February 19, 2011, 23:08:21
Post by: spike on February 19, 2011, 23:30:58
Post by: Reggie on February 19, 2011, 23:57:12
Can we just get a sticky thread in the off topic section for the rest of us to pick on Nick, so we don't have to do it in an official announcement thread? Can the admin account settings restrict a user to one thread? :D
:D Sorry, I'm in a grouchy mood ...... - RR
Post by: MarkM on February 20, 2011, 01:06:15
Well, I'll be the voice of dissent then...in all honesty I feel like I've been 'sold' with the rest of the flock...sorry, but yeah, that's putting it bluntly. Given the community we have here, this should have been put to VOTE Frank. I realize you own the site, were the registered domain name holder, etc, etc...but let's be honest, what makes the site what it is are the people who come here, not just the 'dippy.org' name.
I'm going to have to agree with Dariusz on this one. It feels as though the rug was pulled out from underneath me, and we all have contributed to this place.
The blurb that Dariusz quoted off of Allpar's Copyright policy is especially concerning to me. If I'm reading it correctly, then the pictures and information I've contributed from my own personal projects are now subject to their copyright, and I'll be infringing on that copyright if I post these pictures elsewhere. If this is true, then I humbly request all my contributions to the library section be expunged.
As to the sale itself, Frank, has this been finalized yet? There is more than enough IT talent here to admin the site, and even give it a makeover. If it isn't set into stone, I'd like the opportunity to discuss options.
Post by: Reggie on February 20, 2011, 01:42:05
Sorry, but it's a done deal. You have a PM. - RR
Post by: 88 dippy on February 20, 2011, 01:57:53
but hope it all works out
Post by: cbodymoparfan on February 20, 2011, 06:58:58
Post by: fjbfour on February 20, 2011, 09:04:03
- Theme change: That is now up to Allpar staff, but I know they will listen to opinions. As I've already said, they have nothing to gain by rocking the boat.
- dippy.org is intended to remain as a stand-alone forum. Some content will be added to it, but users will still have to register here as they always have. This place has had ups and downs, but the self-regulation of the user base has been successful in keeping it from ever getting seriously dumbed down. I don't have any reason to suspect anything different going forward. Existing Allpar users are not simply being handed the keys to the house and told to go raid the fridge. The new user process is unchanged.
- The price for the site was more than $50, but the crazy $5000 quote was brought up at the time because of its ludicrousness. I checked the value of the domain myself, and except for one totally broken appraisal site that decided it was worth $37k :blink::blink:, all others landed at around $250. Go out and check for yourself. And let me point out, the board is only a part of the site. The sale was primarily of the content of the entire web site. Most of you guys only hang out here on the board, but the body of the site (of which I did nearly all of the work years ago) is positively gigantic. Check the Site Map (https://www.dippy.org/tools/sitemap.html) and see for yourself. The board has value (most notably the library), but it was surely not the only thing driving Allpar's interest.
- The copyright info at Allpar is boilerplate for pretty much anywhere, I am not really sure why this is a driving concern. Again, they have nothing to gain by stealing anyone's work and running you off. Building a knowledge base by keeping you guys around and respecting your effort is a better deal for them. Frankly, if Allpar's M-section was the leader in the category, you guys would have been there all along posting the same stuff and would be upset if they had then sold to me. I think the copyright paranoia is a little overstated, but that is just my opinion. Speaking further into that, the copyright was quoted and then an important piece sort of missed in the discussion. Let me point something out.Quote
The materials and information on the sites are protected by copyright and/or other intellectual property laws. Any unauthorized use may violate such laws. Except as expressly provided herein, Allpar and any other writers or copyright or trademark holders do not grant any express or implied right to you under any patents, copyrights, trademarks, or trade secret information with respect to the Materials, information, and services.
Allpar is recognizing the efforts of and subsequently protecting its contributors, too. Their statement says that they do not automatically grant permission for people to kype stuff, and that other contributors don't automatically allow it, either. There is absolutely nothing in the Allpar statement that ever says anything about all IP becoming exclusively theirs. - Allpar would really like Reggie and Mike to stay on. Again.... not rocking the boat. Both have agreed to continue for now. Thank you, guys.
- Yes, advertising brought in enough to cover expenses, I was not losing money, but wasn't going to retire on it, either. As was pointed out, I could have just dumped the site, sold the domain for $$$, and walked away. But the sale was not about making or losing money. It is about me being unable to keep up and do it justice, and depositing our combined labor of love in the most protected secure place I could think of.
Remember.... don't freak out. Allpar prefers as little change as possible. If you guys keep voting for white on black, you'll very likely win.
I hope this clears some stuff up. Dave from Allpar will probably chime in today or tomorrow.
Post by: S-type on February 20, 2011, 09:31:31
Anyways, only one question remains in my mind: rights to the information (primarily photos) that each one of us may have uploaded/attached in various posts in the past...does this all become property of Allpar now?I moderate on a very large board and can say without apprehension this is a good thing for Farley's page. The boilerplate in the TOS will protect what we have here in this forum, without it, we are subject to slime balls that pray on sites like this. I don't frequent Allpar enough but obviously will now. I do know it to be well run and professional and I can accept its takeover with open arms.
I specifically ask this because of the following Allpar 'Terms of Use' (http://www.allpar.com/i/terms.html (http://www.allpar.com/i/terms.html)), in particular this section:
'...Copyright and license
The materials and information on the sites are protected by copyright and/or other intellectual property laws. Any unauthorized use may violate such laws. Except as expressly provided herein, Allpar and any other writers or copyright or trademark holders do not grant any express or implied right to you under any patents, copyrights, trademarks, or trade secret information with respect to the Materials, information, and services.
Except as specifically permitted herein, no portion of the information or documents on the Sites may be reproduced in any form or by any means without the prior written permission of Allpar. This includes, but is not limited to, "reprinting" on the Web, in newsgroups, and in mailing lists....'
Sooo....anyone else concerned here? I think all of a sudden our IP (intellectual property) is someone else's...that's what does not sit right with me!!!
Frank/Dave, you guys need to explain please...if I'm overreacting, great...but I want to know.
To the new owners, if you haven't looked into this you should. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/dmca-righthaven-loophole/
A lot of good sites are being eaten alive by these clowns, don't let Farley's Page be one of them.
Post by: Ice Cold on February 20, 2011, 09:41:38
https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php/topic,6831.0.html
So is that stuff not 'good' to post w the legal mumbo-jumbo?....in lawyer land? I dunno? :umm:
It's the membership who make the board, not the owners. :cool:
I just hope the board stays on course. 
O/T, but I've seen pics of 'my' car where I can't download it. :huh: Do I need to copywright my car? :umm:
Post by: M_Body_Coupe on February 20, 2011, 09:58:35
Frank,
You need to give people on the board a little credit...not all of us are mindless automatons signing up on any board we come across w/o reading the Terms of Use/Privacy disclaimers. Most of my stuff I post on the net I have started tossing the good old 'Copyright' statement on....why? Well, when the next corporate owner comes along, and let's face it, Allpar is just that (otherwise how do you explain them hosting Toyota forums..LOL), I want to make sure I do retain ownership over the content I provided. As an active member of this forum I do not care if the '...copyright info at Allpar is boilerplate for pretty much anywhere...', what I care about is how it applies specifically in this case, specifically to me and so on. So let's have an intelligent discussion on this topic, so that people like Mark and I (and whoever else feels this way) can make a simple call: do we need to yank our previous input from the board? It's a simple YES/NO type of an answer...unless one wants to remain hidden behind the legal mumbo-jumbo of yet another boilerplate statement...
Post by: 79dodge4ever on February 20, 2011, 10:19:06
Well, I'll be the voice of dissent then...in all honesty I feel like I've been 'sold' with the rest of the flock...sorry, but yeah, that's putting it bluntly. Given the community we have here, this should have been put to VOTE Frank. I realize you own the site, were the registered domain name holder, etc, etc...but let's be honest, what makes the site what it is are the people who come here, not just the 'dippy.org' name.
I'm going to have to agree with Dariusz on this one. It feels as though the rug was pulled out from underneath me, and we all have contributed to this place.
The blurb that Dariusz quoted off of Allpar's Copyright policy is especially concerning to me. If I'm reading it correctly, then the pictures and information I've contributed from my own personal projects are now subject to their copyright, and I'll be infringing on that copyright if I post these pictures elsewhere. If this is true, then I humbly request all my contributions to the library section be expunged.
As to the sale itself, Frank, has this been finalized yet? There is more than enough IT talent here to admin the site, and even give it a makeover. If it isn't set into stone, I'd like the opportunity to discuss options.
well I can tell you this if they were my photos to start with I can do what ever the heck I want with them and if allpar doesn't like that they can kiss my A$$
Post by: 79dodge4ever on February 20, 2011, 10:21:51
: Do I need to copywright my car? :umm:
:D
Post by: Malcolm from Canada on February 20, 2011, 13:13:26
well I can tell you this if they were my photos to start with I can do what ever the heck I want with them and if allpar doesn't like that they can kiss my A$$
Relax 79' we're Canadians
We can still download music and copy righted stuff without fear of prosecution. For as long as Viewsat was still broadcasting there were lawyers trying to prosecute Canadians and the liberal appointed judges threw it out of court each and every time.
Malcolm
Post by: AllparDave on February 20, 2011, 14:12:19
Thank you for your understanding. I'd like to explain a few things.
Since you like the color scheme, we'll keep it.
The copyright stuff is needed on the Allpar forums namely because I frequently archive posts onto the "main site." Let's say someone posts a really good description of how to fix a stalling problem on a 1984 Diplomat. I can put it into our stalling page without worrying. (It also gives me an option if some nasty guy decides he wants to post the entire Allpar forums somewhere.) The copyright on the non-forums parts of Allpar is needed for the same reason Frank has it on the non-forum parts of dippy.org: if you don't, someone WILL replicate your entire site somewhere under a different name. We've had a few people take pages from Allpar, put their name into the byline, and scratch out any references to Allpar. That's just not right... sometimes it takes a LONG time to put stuff together.
Now, as to our "corporate" status. I'm the Allpar guy. I don't subcontract, I don't hire people to run things, I don't have fifty different forums about fifty different cars. I've met people who do this; some are sleazier than others but ... I don't have dozens of "forumz" where the only unique thing is the car shown. I don't go out looking to buy sites. I don't work in one place and have guys working in other places to actually do all the work. I do the server stuff, I write, I edit, I file the papers, I vacuum the carpets.
Allpar is not an Internet Brands, or Auto Guide, or any of the other "majors" who have been on buying sprees. Allpar remains essentially "Dave from Allpar" with trusted people helping out.
In my life I have acquired two sites other than dippy.org, namely macstats.org and rootes-chrysler.co.uk. In both cases the sites were moribund. In both cases I wanted to preserve the material or intent. In Rootes' case I needed to pay the owner to bring the site back to life; it had actually gone dark. I found out later he'd actually, um, "borrowed" a couple of articles that appeared under his name, but that's been fixed and the site's been up now for six years under Allpar, getting updates now and then.
valiant.org, ptcruizer.com, acarplace.com, ramtalk.net, pentastars.com -- I started each of those for various reasons. valiant.org was started before allpar, really, as a test of using domain names. ptcruizer... well, I wanted a PT. Eventually I got one. ramtalk was largely to see if we could get more truck owners in forums if they were separate from allpar forums. Pentastars started as a history site, went to satire, went to the engines. Acarplace is a way for me to get cars to review partly so I know what the competition is like for keeping up with current Mopars.
The Toyota sites ... yes, they're mine, all right. I did own a Corolla - made in Canada (when I ordered I thought they were all made in California) - back when I commuted 55 miles each way and really wanted that 38 mpg, quiet interior, and comfy seats, and didn't want something too fast or that would leave me stranded (I was coming out of a Dodge Spirit R/T). I should have gotten a Stratus... (we already had a Neon) -- but I also figured I might need to sell it on a moment's notice and frankly the resale value was important. So I started a companion Corolla site. That led to the Toyota site which I tried to give to a friend, but he wasn't able to keep it up. So I keep it up, still. It's there; you can see it's not as well maintained as Allpar, valiant.org, ptcruizer.com, etc. (And I do have a Valiant and did until recently have a PT.) If you want to buy the Toyota sites... please make an offer. The others aren't for sale. (I have had offers for allpar etc. -- but was never happy with the long term effects on the site.)
I've never owned a Diplomat but I _have_ owned three A-bodies -- Valiant, Dart Swinger, and Valiant again -- the predecessors of the M-bodies. I've always liked the Diplomats and nearly bought one, twice, but it never went through. The first video posted at Allpar was, I believe, a profile of a Fifth Avenue (I might be wrong about the timing, but it was one of the first).
Some other notes:
1) Will there be ads on the forums? Probably not. Maybe after a while, subtle ones. Maybe not.
2) What benefits will this bring? We can bring more publicity, more frequent updates, hopefully faster page loads (at least outside the forums), current SMF software, etc. Also, we will probably be cutting some of the ads -- I know that sounds like a paradoxical move. Our size allows us to use ads that bring a better return without being as annoying (I hope) if I can figure out a way to do it in white-on-black mode. Maybe we'll be able to get some local meets going. And we're stable.
3) Do I expect to profit from dippy.org? Well, if I do, it won't be for four or five years, most likely. By then I'll have put in a lot of time. So I think the basic answer is, "No, but if I do, I won't be unhappy."
4) I would very much appreciate your patience since I am bound to do or say dumb things from time to time.
Oh, and the bad quotes cited earlier... are from Chrysler's press materials. I'll track 'em down and fix 'em. I obviously have a link pointing in the wrong place somewhere.
Post by: AllparDave on February 20, 2011, 14:38:55
Post by: DobaMark on February 20, 2011, 14:50:42
Allpar isn't a rich person's car site, it's full of people keeping 20+ year old minivans, K cars and, yes, even M bodies alive and on the road, even though there are also people with newer cars. My only issue is I used different member names in both places, mainly due to the different cars I owned when I registered at each. I like that neither site tolerates profanity laced posts that so many other forums are full of.
Post by: Stratuscaster on February 20, 2011, 16:22:55
Some background on me: I'm the forum administrator for Allpar, as well as a contributing editor. I own and run http://stratusphere.net - a site dedicated to the Stratus, Cirrus, Breeze, Avenger and Sebring cars. I'm also on the admin team for http://aseclub.net - a site dedicated to the Avenger/Sebring coupes. I understand what it's like to start up a site and then a community based around a single vehicle or line of vehicles, and like Dave and Frank, I never intended to get rich doing it - as long as it paid for itself, I was happy to do it. And 10 years later, I still am.
Some of you guys gave Nick some lip earlier about bringing up Farley's downtime to us at Allpar - the first thought in my mind was "what happened and how can we help?" It was never "let's go swoop in like a vulture and pick it clean" - that never entered my mind. There is a wealth of information - along with the community - that I didn't want to see get lost or disappear. No, I don't own a Diplomat - never have, probably never will. But it's part of Mopar history, and that's what I hoped to preserve.
I've read through the thread here - the concerns are valid ones, and I'm glad you guys took the time to voice your thoughts and opinions on it. I happen to like the white-on-black myself - it may be because that's how I've always seen Farley's pages. To change them just for the sake of change doesn't seem right.
Anyway, as Dave noted, any immediate changes would be to the static pages and not here in the forums, and shouldn't be anything earth-shattering. There is a pleasing simplicity here - I don't see a need to muck about with it all that much.
Please feel free to post or email any ideas, concerns, or issues. Or, in the case of DobaMark, perhaps I can help with the "different member name" issue.
Post by: MyDodgeDip on February 20, 2011, 16:59:10
Post by: TomP on February 20, 2011, 17:43:46
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2011, 17:46:05
Hello, folks. I'm Jim, and I work closely with Dave on Allpar and his other related sites. Just wanted to back up Dave's comments and try to assure you that we don't intend on any huge sweeping bombastic changes here - what is here works; no need to mess it up.
Some background on me: I'm the forum administrator for Allpar, as well as a contributing editor. I own and run http://stratusphere.net - a site dedicated to the Stratus, Cirrus, Breeze, Avenger and Sebring cars. I'm also on the admin team for http://aseclub.net - a site dedicated to the Avenger/Sebring coupes. I understand what it's like to start up a site and then a community based around a single vehicle or line of vehicles, and like Dave and Frank, I never intended to get rich doing it - as long as it paid for itself, I was happy to do it. And 10 years later, I still am.
Some of you guys gave Nick some lip earlier about bringing up Farley's downtime to us at Allpar - the first thought in my mind was "what happened and how can we help?" It was never "let's go swoop in like a vulture and pick it clean" - that never entered my mind. There is a wealth of information - along with the community - that I didn't want to see get lost or disappear. No, I don't own a Diplomat - never have, probably never will. But it's part of Mopar history, and that's what I hoped to preserve.
I've read through the thread here - the concerns are valid ones, and I'm glad you guys took the time to voice your thoughts and opinions on it. I happen to like the white-on-black myself - it may be because that's how I've always seen Farley's pages. To change them just for the sake of change doesn't seem right.
Anyway, as Dave noted, any immediate changes would be to the static pages and not here in the forums, and shouldn't be anything earth-shattering. There is a pleasing simplicity here - I don't see a need to muck about with it all that much.
Please feel free to post or email any ideas, concerns, or issues. Or, in the case of DobaMark, perhaps I can help with the "different member name" issue.
I think you just alienated people here even more and confirmed some of their worries. Dave just said in his reply that he's the allpar guy and does it on his own and now you are using this WE word. That's not a good thing to hear. Thanks for this additional insight.
Part of the reason some people are bugging Nick is because of what he does around here but a big part of it is true. The posts at allpar sound just like a vulture waiting for his chance to take over here and that's what happened. The future of Farley's wasn't a problem. Like a few have already pointed out if it came down to it there are several people here who would have been more then willing and capable of jumping in to help if need be. I think things would have gone a lot better if we all knew what was coming before it actually happened. But it is Frank's site and in reality none of us have the right so say what goes on with it. What's done is done.
There are quite a few long time members here who stuck around because of how this place is run and because of Frank. It is a small group here with that small group feeling. Be very careful what you do or change because it can scare people off.
And thanks guys for stopping in to say hi
Post by: S-type on February 20, 2011, 17:51:39
Dave just said in his reply that he's the allpar guy and does it on his own and now you are using this WE word. That's not a good thing to hear.Actually, he said this.
Quote
Allpar remains essentially "Dave from Allpar" with trusted people helping out.
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2011, 18:24:37
Dave just said in his reply that he's the allpar guy and does it on his own and now you are using this WE word. That's not a good thing to hear.Actually, he said this.QuoteAllpar remains essentially "Dave from Allpar" with trusted people helping out.
Helping out is fine. WE generally implies more then that.
Quote
Now, as to our "corporate" status. I'm the Allpar guy. I don't subcontract, I don't hire people to run things, I don't have fifty different forums about fifty different cars. I've met people who do this; some are sleazier than others but ... I don't have dozens of "forumz" where the only unique thing is the car shown. I don't go out looking to buy sites. I don't work in one place and have guys working in other places to actually do all the work. I do the server stuff, I write, I edit, I file the papers, I vacuum the carpets.
Post by: 270SE on February 20, 2011, 19:20:15
Do I need to copywright my car? :umm:Does somebody not already own the copyrights to it? :D
Post by: 88 dippy on February 20, 2011, 19:21:17
welcome abourd dave
Post by: Sublime440 on February 20, 2011, 19:27:37
So would Allpar "own" the "rights" to the images I post of my cars?
Post by: S-type on February 20, 2011, 19:34:15
Post by: brotherGood on February 20, 2011, 19:37:36
I have no idea what's going on. I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.
So would Allpar "own" the "rights" to the images I post of my cars?
yeah, i make pizza..haha. but really, from what ive read, its almost like yes, the site is owned by allpar, but almost as if they want it run by Mike and Reggie as much as by themselves. The copyright thing seems like its to protect the sites content from being ripped off by others..and in no way to take possession of what has been posted here--whether it be links, pictures, whatever. It wouldnt make sense to say "ok, everything youve ever posted is now mine" i know i'd stop doing anything if that was the case, thus making the entire point of keeping the site up a waste of time.
Post by: Reggie on February 20, 2011, 19:37:41
Some of you guys gave Nick some lip earlier about bringing up Farley's downtime to us at Allpar
Hello Jim. Lip? :blink: I don't give anybody lip. I type, write or speak. I simply stated facts as they occurred. BTW - Be sure to check out the Transactions section. There are plenty of nice M-bodies for sale there all the time....
- RR
Post by: Reggie on February 20, 2011, 19:57:11
I have no idea what's going on. I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.
So would Allpar "own" the "rights" to the images I post of my cars?
Hi Rob,
No. The original owners of any images are the copyright holders. Any images that you posted in the Forum belong to you. All images in the Library belong to the people who submitted them. Go back to Frank's post on page 2 and Dave's post on page 3. - RR
Post by: S-type on February 20, 2011, 20:08:25
Hi Rob,Yes, and what you posted is protected from being stolen on the Allpar site because of its copyright. That's how it's supposed to work. One could then provide a link, quote a small portion, but one may not copy and paste it. No one may profit in any way from your work.
No. The original owners of any images are the copyright holders. Any images that you posted in the Forum belong to you. All images in the Library belong to the people who submitted them. Go back to Frank's post on page 2 and Dave's post on page 3. - RR
Isn't that how it works?
Post by: Ice Cold on February 20, 2011, 20:12:27
I have no idea what's going on. I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.What kind of locomotive do you operate? :whist: :p
[quote author=Reggie
BTW - Be sure to check out the Transactions section. There are plenty of nice M-bodies for sale there all the time....
- RR[/quote]
Usually cheap :p
Post by: Reggie on February 20, 2011, 20:40:39
Quote from: ReggieUsually cheap :p
BTW - Be sure to check out the Transactions section. There are plenty of nice M-bodies for sale there all the time....
Lol!
Post by: Prospect62 on February 20, 2011, 20:47:20
However part of my life is my car, and I would NEVER have gotten this involved or knowledgeable about this hobby without this very forum. No other forum (including Allpar) on the internet has so much great information and experienced members dedicated to these cars. It truly is a unique place and an island in a sea of forums with members, spammers and scammers that fight, lie, cheat, steal and have pissing matches daily. None of that here. So here's to hoping nothing much changes.
I do find it odd that the site was just sold off without at least asking the members if they wanted to help out first. Perhaps a "please contribute or we are selling to Allpar" type thread, at the very minimum. Had you done that Frank, the few dissenters on here would have had to put up or shut up.
To the folks from Allpar...WELCOME. I have been heavily using internet forums for years (just like everyone else) and dippy.org is a truly unique place where about 99% of the active forum members are genuinely nice people who are always willing to help anyone who comes here. I'd hate to see that change - and I hope you recognize that and try to preserve the feel here. And finally, thanks for turning the lights back on.
Dan
Post by: Sublime440 on February 20, 2011, 21:46:34
I have no idea what's going on. I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.
So would Allpar "own" the "rights" to the images I post of my cars?
Hi Rob,
No. The original owners of any images are the copyright holders. Any images that you posted in the Forum belong to you. All images in the Library belong to the people who submitted them. Go back to Frank's post on page 2 and Dave's post on page 3. - RR
Those posts are too ridiculously long for me to read and get a clear understanding. Either way this sounds like a bunch of drama. I feel like I'm in the middle of some transaction with guys I've never met before, yet, they seem to now run the show like they've been on here for as long as everyone else.
In the real world there is a "bottom line". What is the bottom line? That this is now a subsidy to Allpar and that we are integrated into their site and nothing more than that?
Post by: Nickdalzell on February 20, 2011, 22:58:09
Post by: Sublime440 on February 20, 2011, 23:04:44
Do you always have the gangsta rappah look while you're soaking up the drama?
Post by: Nickdalzell on February 20, 2011, 23:17:28
and BTW how did you get my picture from the EarthSave event anyway? are you in my Facebook or something?
Post by: Sublime440 on February 20, 2011, 23:31:28
and BTW how did you get my picture from the EarthSave event anyway? are you in my Facebook or something?
I was at the event in disguise, watching your every move. I'm onto you and your brainwashing cult. How appropriate this conversation ended up in a thread titled "Important Announcement"...
Post by: Prospect62 on February 20, 2011, 23:47:58
It truly is a unique place and an island in a sea of forums with members, spammers and scammers that fight, lie, cheat, steal and have pissing matches daily. None of that here.
You clowns are making a liar out of me.
Post by: 8D5 Gran Fury on February 21, 2011, 02:33:06
It truly is a unique place and an island in a sea of forums with members, spammers and scammers that fight, lie, cheat, steal and have pissing matches daily. None of that here.
You clowns are making a liar out of me.
Well we could always pop in a politics/religion/art forum...that would get this place a-rocking!
Post by: M_Body_Coupe on February 21, 2011, 07:32:39
Hi. Dave from Allpar here.
Thank you for your understanding. I'd like to explain a few things.
...
Some other notes:
1) Will there be ads on the forums? Probably not. Maybe after a while, subtle ones. Maybe not.
2) What benefits will this bring? We can bring more publicity, more frequent updates, hopefully faster page loads (at least outside the forums), current SMF software, etc. Also, we will probably be cutting some of the ads -- I know that sounds like a paradoxical move. Our size allows us to use ads that bring a better return without being as annoying (I hope) if I can figure out a way to do it in white-on-black mode. Maybe we'll be able to get some local meets going. And we're stable.
3) Do I expect to profit from dippy.org? Well, if I do, it won't be for four or five years, most likely. By then I'll have put in a lot of time. So I think the basic answer is, "No, but if I do, I won't be unhappy."
4) I would very much appreciate your patience since I am bound to do or say dumb things from time to time.
Oh, and the bad quotes cited earlier... are from Chrysler's press materials. I'll track 'em down and fix 'em. I obviously have a link pointing in the wrong place somewhere.
Dave,
Your input is much appreciated, however, at least for me it fails to address the questions asked. So here is another try, with a couple of very 'point blank' examples:
1) I have contributed to our 'Library' section in the past. What is the status of all such contributions when these were made PRIOR to your purchase of the domain? What is the status of such contributions from now onwards? Is this content automatically owned by Allpar entity, or do I as an individual retain the copyright? The difference some might ask: if it's my copyright then no one else has the permission to duplicate it (in any form) w/o my express agreement to do so, that includes Allpar.
2) Any material contributed to the forums, such as material scans, part number references, installation details, install photos, etc...do I retain the copyright over these?
3) By continuing my membership on Dippy.org, am I granting Allpar any type of irrevocable permission to freely reproduce/distribute/use my content as Allpar may wish?
Alright...3 very clearly (I hope) stated questions.
Please...no boiler plate template type answers, give me the real goods here.
-Dariusz
Post by: Stratuscaster on February 21, 2011, 08:01:36
Dave just said in his reply that he's the allpar guy and does it on his own and now you are using this WE word. That's not a good thing to hear.Actually, he said this.QuoteAllpar remains essentially "Dave from Allpar" with trusted people helping out.
Helping out is fine. WE generally implies more then that.QuoteNow, as to our "corporate" status. I'm the Allpar guy. I don't subcontract, I don't hire people to run things, I don't have fifty different forums about fifty different cars. I've met people who do this; some are sleazier than others but ... I don't have dozens of "forumz" where the only unique thing is the car shown. I don't go out looking to buy sites. I don't work in one place and have guys working in other places to actually do all the work. I do the server stuff, I write, I edit, I file the papers, I vacuum the carpets.
Then allow me to clarify. I'm one of his "trusted people." Just as the moderators here are "trusted people" helping out at dippy.org, I'm helping out at Allpar. "We" is perfectly suitable, because the two of us work together - that's "we." Of course, most of you don't know me from Adam, and I'd be foolish to think there would be an instant trust.
Post by: Stratuscaster on February 21, 2011, 08:03:06
Duly noted, sir.Some of you guys gave Nick some lip earlier about bringing up Farley's downtime to us at Allpar
Hello Jim. Lip? :blink: I don't give anybody lip. I type, write or speak. I simply stated facts as they occurred. BTW - Be sure to check out the Transactions section. There are plenty of nice M-bodies for sale there all the time....
Post by: AllparDave on February 21, 2011, 08:26:25
Jim -- Stratuscaster -- has been of great help with the Allpar forums. He is, in essence, Dippy's Mike and Reggie.
Moving on...
Dave,
Your input is much appreciated, however, at least for me it fails to address the questions asked. So here is another try, with a couple of very 'point blank' examples:
1) I have contributed to our 'Library' section in the past. What is the status of all such contributions when these were made PRIOR to your purchase of the domain? What is the status of such contributions from now onwards? Is this content automatically owned by Allpar entity, or do I as an individual retain the copyright? The difference some might ask: if it's my copyright then no one else has the permission to duplicate it (in any form) w/o my express agreement to do so, that includes Allpar.
2) Any material contributed to the forums, such as material scans, part number references, installation details, install photos, etc...do I retain the copyright over these?
3) By continuing my membership on Dippy.org, am I granting Allpar any type of irrevocable permission to freely reproduce/distribute/use my content as Allpar may wish?
Alright...3 very clearly (I hope) stated questions.
Please...no boiler plate template type answers, give me the real goods here.
-Dariusz
1) The status ... well, that's a good question. I'm not a lawyer. Legally, the question is whether it was considered, when Frank had full ownership, as a work for hire vs as a reproduced portion of copyrighted material. It does seem that before I can use anything at Allpar, I'll need to get permissions from the individual contributors, as a matter of "doing what's right" if not actual legality. The answer, Dariusz, is, "I don't know." But I'll have to ask before using anything.
2) It's questions like this that led to the Allpar forums' terms wording... [sigh.] It's probably the same as #1. I'm not going to try to stop you from posting somewhere else, something that you yourself wrote/photographed/drew. I'll have to ask before borrowing.
3) Yes, unless you expressly say that you don't want that to happen. I'll honor your request as I would at allpar. The issue's never come up, though. Really, the question is, "why would you want to restrict the distribution of your post?"
Excuse me if I'm not very smooth here, this situation has not actually come up before. At MacStats.org, everything was written by one guy. At rootes-chrysler.co.uk, there were some problems with people who had not been given proper attribution originally. That was worked out quickly and easily.
Really, I have the same ultimate goal here: I want to preserve the information on this site and continue its outreach to M-body owners and the general public. At allpar we have long had two Diplomat pages -- one for all the M-bodies, and one for the squads at http://www.allpar.com/squads/diplomat.html -- which, yes, does include the Gran Fury, but I think you'll understand the reasons. (All the photos on the squad page, I noticed, are Diplomats.) We also have long had links to dippy.org AND Mike's Fifth Avenue page. Indeed, our Diplomat page was originally written by Frank Billington himself.
FWIW, while Allpar "by that name" dates back to 1998, the site itself really dates back to 1994. There's some stability there. I started out before Internet advertising... as far as I know!
As for the idea of buying dippy.org with bloodsucking profiteering in mind, ... consider the effort involved in this versus, say, creating a new site around a new car. It'd be pretty easy to set up a site that would make more money; you don't get huge profits from sites devoted to cars that have long passed out of production unless the general public considers them to be "classics."
(Oh, and yes, I do tend to forget myself at times and use the royal "we." Allpar IS a group effort in many ways -- I rely on the contributions of many people. I don't want to leave them out when talking about Allpar but at this point it does come down to me. We -- by "we" I mean major contributors and me -- have talked about setting up a board to take ownership or something and that'll probably happen one of these days, to assure continuity if anything happens to me personally. There are contingency plans in place for that sort of thing already. Part of stability is outlasting the founder.)
There's probably not much I can say to increase my credibility. Only time can do that if you give Jim and me a chance.
Post by: fjbfour on February 21, 2011, 09:05:56
I think Dave's and Jim's answers, so far, have gone as far as they can and accommodated as much as can be accommodated, to demonstrate a desire to help, that they don't want to take your work and run, that they aren't in it for profit, and that they don't plan to change what isn't broken.
Help: Allpar has been a huge helpful resource for years. I have made great use of it myself. If they ever made a buck from my time there, it was worth it. I trusted Allpar back then and today to host my work, and I frankly don't care what they do with it if it helps others.
Theft: What exactly could they possibly do to steal your work? I mean, yeah, they could pass it off as their own, but for what real gain and at what cost in reputation? Allpar has been pooling a knowledge base for many years, and I am 100% positive we've all collectively gained more from their existence directly or indirectly than they've gained from us.
Profit: I can tell you first hand that although this site paid for itself in terms of static maintenance costs, it has not ever remotely come close over its entire revenue-earning life - even after counting the sale price - to pay even a small fraction of the cost of man-hours put in by myself (let alone others) to make it what it is, unless it is cool to earn around five cents per hour. It is and always has been a labor of love, not a soulless profit engine.
Change: Seeing as how the previous three points are what they are, what could Allpar or would Allpar possibly change, and for what benefit would it serve? The logical conclusion is that with nothing to really gain other than preserving the content of the site for the good of the many, it makes no sense at all to make changes that would scare anyone off.
If some of you guys still think Allpar is a corporate monster that eats Mopar web sites, all I can do is laugh at the absurdity. If you think they want to steal your info and run while rubbing their hands with glee at the success of the master evil corporate plan, then by all means delete your posts and take your information somewhere else, no one is stopping you. If, after all the answers that have been given so far, anyone thinks that this is doom and gloom and the end of all that is good and right, there is probably nothing anyone can say or do that will help you feel better about it.
I didn't put it to a vote, I didn't give others a chance to step in, and I'm sorry for anyone who is hurt by that, but I did what I thought was best to preserve everyone's work and ensure this place and its information is around for many years to come. I want you all to stay for the good of the many, but you'll all do what you have to do.
Sorry for the rant. You all know me well enough to know that I rarely, rarely ever really rant on here. If any of you ever trusted me, if you still trust me, then I am telling you point blank to trust Dave and Jim, as I am perfectly comfortable doing by turning over my 14-year-old labor of love to their care and custody. Do with that what you will, and let's move on.
[/rant]
Post by: S-type on February 21, 2011, 09:18:33
Dariusz, Mark and anyone else that is worrying. I'm not a lawyer either, but I have 16 years experience treating industrial waste water so I'll give it a shot. When you post something on a forum, what you post is and always will be yours. You are in fact the author. No one, not even a Judge can take that from you. When you click submit, you grant the forum the right to display your material in the public domain. What is in your post is yours. The post itself is the property of the forum, it is on their server. It is no different now than it was when Frank owned it. The only real difference is the Allpar wording clarifies what was ambiguous on the old forum and helps protect your contribution from disreputable entities.
I hope this helps.
Post by: MoparDan on February 21, 2011, 11:01:51
welcome Dave and Jim, and thanks for creating this site Frank! 8)
Post by: Ark on February 21, 2011, 16:59:40
Post by: 88 dippy on February 21, 2011, 17:33:55
Post by: MyDodgeDip on February 21, 2011, 18:35:17
If anyone has any concerns, check out some pages on allpar. Dave goes out of the way to give credit where it is due, just like Reggie does in the Library here. For an example, check out their page on K cars: http://www.allpar.com/eek/k/k.html Tons of info and credited to the people who contributed.
As far as the problems with M body details on the allpar site (grouping Lebaron with Aspen/volare ETC) All they need is someone from here to correct anything wrong you notice. I'm guessing no one mentioned it to them yet.
Post by: Remy-Z on February 22, 2011, 09:01:31
OK...
First, to Frank: I understand why this happened. I don't know Dave and Jim, though I'm familiar with Allpar. I'll wait and see before making a call on whether or not this is good or bad.
Dave and Jim: The main concerns (losing the small-site feel, etc) are valid. I like the site because of that. I would ask that whatever changes are made are minimal at best.
Post by: Stratuscaster on February 22, 2011, 12:45:43
Dave and Jim: The main concerns (losing the small-site feel, etc) are valid. I like the site because of that. I would ask that whatever changes are made are minimal at best.I concur. As I noted before, there's a "feel" here that serves it well.
Post by: AllparDave on February 22, 2011, 14:01:54
There must be a lot of customization in this theme, because the new themes don't work ... or at least they look very odd indeed. But we made it through.
Post by: fjbfour on February 22, 2011, 14:19:22
There must be a lot of customization in this theme, because the new themes don't work ... or at least they look very odd indeed. But we made it through.
I manually modified the base default theme (white with blue-based colors), one element at a time through the hex codes as I figured out what they were, to what it looks like today. A lot of customization is putting it lightly...
Post by: AllparDave on February 22, 2011, 14:35:11
This seems to be a tighter theme anyway. Less ... unnecessary stuff.
Post by: Ice Cold on February 22, 2011, 15:07:49
Well, I've made the big change -- upgrading SMF to version 1.1.13.
Will it work on my Amiga? :umm: :p
Post by: Ice Cold on February 22, 2011, 16:02:17
General content I guess. :p If you want to make a tweak, change the 'child board' status of 3rd party transactions. Maybe split it into 3rd party cars and another 3rd party parts.
Just as long the feel of the board remains, it should be all good.
Post by: M_Body_Coupe on February 22, 2011, 22:32:50
...
1) The status ... well, that's a good question. I'm not a lawyer. Legally, the question is whether it was considered, when Frank had full ownership, as a work for hire vs as a reproduced portion of copyrighted material. It does seem that before I can use anything at Allpar, I'll need to get permissions from the individual contributors, as a matter of "doing what's right" if not actual legality. The answer, Dariusz, is, "I don't know." But I'll have to ask before using anything.
2) It's questions like this that led to the Allpar forums' terms wording... [sigh.] It's probably the same as #1. I'm not going to try to stop you from posting somewhere else, something that you yourself wrote/photographed/drew. I'll have to ask before borrowing.
3) Yes, unless you expressly say that you don't want that to happen. I'll honor your request as I would at allpar. The issue's never come up, though. Really, the question is, "why would you want to restrict the distribution of your post?"
...
Dave and Jim,
I do not know you guys, but the fact that neither one of you owns a M-body car today tells me - in simple terms - that your interest in the board lies somewhere else other then to keep it alive for the sake of all of us M-body fanatics...Yes, I would like to believe otherwise, but I'm not that naive, heck maybe I'm just paranoid LOL...either way, I'm just being blunt and straight up with you guys here. No offence meant, and I sincerely hope I am very wrong about this, only time will tell. I wish you the best of luck, this is my last post on this subject and I will not bring this up again. I do appreciate you having responded to the issues I have raised.
I leave this topic with the following: a piece of advice, a request and an explanation to the rest of the group:
1) ADVICE: I work for a very large global company, so this is from my corporate experience. Like it or not, you are a business owner(s). Your policy, be it privacy, or copyright must be clearly defined. This is the Digital Age. Answering with a '...[sigh]...' when discussing matter that serious is not the best foundation for stability. You should have this clearly defined and clearly communicated. Your statements have missed that mark.
2) REQUEST: As an individual contributor I do not give you the permission (express or implied) to reproduce any of the content I have provided on Dippy.org in the past. If this means the content has to be removed, go ahead and remove it please.
3) EXPLANATION TO THE GROUP: Why is this a big deal to me? Well, it's simple really, and it mostly deals with where I believe private enterprise belongs. If I am going to interact with a business, it better be because I am an employee or a customer. When we were an enthusiast founded/driven site I felt at all times like I was contributing to a collaborative effort from which all of us participants derived equal benefits. My personal opinion (which I expressed above) is that the new ownership simply does not share that level of enthusiasm for our cars. I believe this is a business investment for them, which by the way does NOT have to mean it's a BAD thing for the site itself. However, as far as my personal interests lie this is no longer an enthusiast driven site. When it comes to my individual contributions, I simply do not believe in someone else profiting from these. Simply put, when I coughed up the nearly $1000 to get my custom exhaust done on the coupe, and I posted tons of pics and write-up on this topic here I was happy to share this with you all. But if that same material is used by a business entity to bring additional traffic to the site in order to derive ad revenue from it, then it becomes a different story. That very same argument can be made about any piece of reference material stored in our Library area and so forth. This hobby is expensive, you all know this. I am proud of my project car, never as proud as when I read the comments you guys leave in response to my posts, or especially when someone suggests a different way of doing things. I also belong to several other Mopar boards, but guess what? You will not find me posting away about my coupe there...why? Because this here was MY community...a two way street, where all benefits and advantages were equally shared between all.
Post by: Stratuscaster on February 23, 2011, 08:54:36
Dave and Jim,You are correct in that I have never owned, nor do I currently own, an M-body car. I also do not own an Avenger or Sebring coupe, which was a concern for some of the folks on ASEClub.net. However, what I am is a Mopar fan and enthusiast, and the M-bodies play a big part in that. I can't force you to believe anything I say, but I want to assure you that the intent was to make sure the dippy.org did not go away. It's just too great of a resource for that. I'm one of those few people that actually would do something like keep a site alive for the sake of it's users - agin, as you note, to you (and likely others) those are just words at this point.
I do not know you guys, but the fact that neither one of you owns a M-body car today tells me - in simple terms - that your interest in the board lies somewhere else other then to keep it alive for the sake of all of us M-body fanatics...Yes, I would like to believe otherwise, but I'm not that naive, heck maybe I'm just paranoid LOL...either way, I'm just being blunt and straight up with you guys here. No offence meant, and I sincerely hope I am very wrong about this, only time will tell. I wish you the best of luck, this is my last post on this subject and I will not bring this up again. I do appreciate you having responded to the issues I have raised.
No offense taken - I appreciate you stating your position.
I will let Dave speak to your other suggestions and comments.
Post by: 79dodge4ever on February 23, 2011, 08:58:20
...
1) The status ... well, that's a good question. I'm not a lawyer. Legally, the question is whether it was considered, when Frank had full ownership, as a work for hire vs as a reproduced portion of copyrighted material. It does seem that before I can use anything at Allpar, I'll need to get permissions from the individual contributors, as a matter of "doing what's right" if not actual legality. The answer, Dariusz, is, "I don't know." But I'll have to ask before using anything.
2) It's questions like this that led to the Allpar forums' terms wording... [sigh.] It's probably the same as #1. I'm not going to try to stop you from posting somewhere else, something that you yourself wrote/photographed/drew. I'll have to ask before borrowing.
3) Yes, unless you expressly say that you don't want that to happen. I'll honor your request as I would at allpar. The issue's never come up, though. Really, the question is, "why would you want to restrict the distribution of your post?"
...
Dave and Jim,
I do not know you guys, but the fact that neither one of you owns a M-body car today tells me - in simple terms - that your interest in the board lies somewhere else other then to keep it alive for the sake of all of us M-body fanatics...Yes, I would like to believe otherwise, but I'm not that naive, heck maybe I'm just paranoid LOL...either way, I'm just being blunt and straight up with you guys here. No offence meant, and I sincerely hope I am very wrong about this, only time will tell. I wish you the best of luck, this is my last post on this subject and I will not bring this up again. I do appreciate you having responded to the issues I have raised.
I leave this topic with the following: a piece of advice, a request and an explanation to the rest of the group:
1) ADVICE: I work for a very large global company, so this is from my corporate experience. Like it or not, you are a business owner(s). Your policy, be it privacy, or copyright must be clearly defined. This is the Digital Age. Answering with a '...[sigh]...' when discussing matter that serious is not the best foundation for stability. You should have this clearly defined and clearly communicated. Your statements have missed that mark.
2) REQUEST: As an individual contributor I do not give you the permission (express or implied) to reproduce any of the content I have provided on Dippy.org in the past. If this means the content has to be removed, go ahead and remove it please.
3) EXPLANATION TO THE GROUP: Why is this a big deal to me? Well, it's simple really, and it mostly deals with where I believe private enterprise belongs. If I am going to interact with a business, it better be because I am an employee or a customer. When we were an enthusiast founded/driven site I felt at all times like I was contributing to a collaborative effort from which all of us participants derived equal benefits. My personal opinion (which I expressed above) is that the new ownership simply does not share that level of enthusiasm for our cars. I believe this is a business investment for them, which by the way does NOT have to mean it's a BAD thing for the site itself. However, as far as my personal interests lie this is no longer an enthusiast driven site. When it comes to my individual contributions, I simply do not believe in someone else profiting from these. Simply put, when I coughed up the nearly $1000 to get my custom exhaust done on the coupe, and I posted tons of pics and write-up on this topic here I was happy to share this with you all. But if that same material is used by a business entity to bring additional traffic to the site in order to derive ad revenue from it, then it becomes a different story. That very same argument can be made about any piece of reference material stored in our Library area and so forth. This hobby is expensive, you all know this. I am proud of my project car, never as proud as when I read the comments you guys leave in response to my posts, or especially when someone suggests a different way of doing things. I also belong to several other Mopar boards, but guess what? You will not find me posting away about my coupe there...why? Because this here was MY community...a two way street, where all benefits and advantages were equally shared between all.
well said :whist:
Post by: DobaMark on February 23, 2011, 09:19:35
I guess if people want to take their ball and go home, that's their choice.
Post by: AllparDave on February 23, 2011, 12:08:02
There's nothing I can do if you want to exclude your postings from being used elsewhere. That said, if you want a clear policy decision, here's one -- I'm not going through the forums and the rest of the site and deleting all your contributions. You made the decision to contribute them to dippy.org. If you have the capability of removing them yourself I can't stop you.
Since switching the ads to Allpar, I have earned, um, $0.00. If you're afraid I'm going to make a profit, I appreciate your optimism. If you look at the "business decisions" I've made at Allpar, you'll see I'm 90% enthusiast and 10% businessman.
Note -- if I was a shark or profit-minded jerk intent on taking over your intellectual property for profit, consider -- would I have no ads (okay, there's an Asterpix banner on the bottom) on http://www.allpar.com/old/club/ ... which uses custom code ? This section was developed and is still maintained to prove that Mopars have what it takes.
PS> I've finally found someone to take toyoland.com over so it won't be part of allpar much longer. I don't know if that helps or not. But you can compare toyoland to allpar and see if you can figure out where my interests really are.
Post by: 270SE on February 23, 2011, 18:57:45
PS> I've finally found someone to take toyoland.com over so it won't be part of allpar much longer. I don't know if that helps or not. But you can compare toyoland to allpar and see if you can figure out where my interests really are.Way to let us site Toyota enthusiasts down Dave... :(
:w00t:
Post by: fjbfour on February 23, 2011, 22:28:09
Anyone that doubts Allpar is ran by Mopar enthusiasts has not spent much time there.
I guess if people want to take their ball and go home, that's their choice.
Seriously. What he said. To doubt Allpar is run by enthusiasts??..... heresy! :D
MBC, did you even read my rant? If you did, and you are still worried.... there is nothing else anyone can say that will change your mind, so after this I am not going to spend any more time on it.
One of us is going to end up with "I told you so" rights, but I promise if they come to me, I won't use them. You will be missed, if you go. And you will be welcomed back, if you go and choose later to return. Or, you can just trust me (us) and stay. Your call.
Post by: brotherGood on February 23, 2011, 22:54:51
Post by: MarkM on February 23, 2011, 22:58:09
1) ADVICE: I work for a very large global company, so this is from my corporate experience. Like it or not, you are a business owner(s). Your policy, be it privacy, or copyright must be clearly defined. This is the Digital Age. Answering with a '...[sigh]...' when discussing matter that serious is not the best foundation for stability. You should have this clearly defined and clearly communicated. Your statements have missed that mark.
2) REQUEST: As an individual contributor I do not give you the permission (express or implied) to reproduce any of the content I have provided on Dippy.org in the past. If this means the content has to be removed, go ahead and remove it please.
I've been pretty much sitting back and just watching as how things unfold, but I think I'll chime in finally. Dariusz's post pretty much sums up my concerns relating to copyright. I still do not have a clear picture as to where content contributed by members here stands, so consider this record of my request for refusal to permit any, and all content contributed by myself prior to the acquisition of the site from being reproduced elsewhere, until otherwise noted.
As for my cause of concern, it sits with the suddenness of the sale of the board, and how we were all kept in the dark. This board and its members have long been a community to me as well, and that community vibe was soured with how these events transpired. Even though Frank vouches for you, and sold the board freely out of concern for its future, it still essentially feels as though this was a hostile takeover. I'm sure you two, Dave and Jim, are great guys and are Mopar through and through, but a lot of chi was disrupted over the last couple of days, and the only thing that will alleviate that for me is time, and observation as to how the board is managed from this point forward.
This is all I will say to this, and I do in fact look forward to being pointed at while others say, "I told you so." Until then...
Post by: spike on February 23, 2011, 23:47:58
Post by: AllparDave on February 24, 2011, 13:06:59
If you go away, I hope you will keep tabs and come back when you feel we've proven ourselves. I can't ask for more than that.
I'm going to do the transfer later today. The DNS change should have propagated. I'll close down the forums before I do the move; if the forum stays closed for more than half an hour, please refresh your DNS cache and try again. Sometimes there are cache issues that can hang around for weeks or months. Refreshing fixes them instantly.
Post by: MoparDan on February 24, 2011, 23:36:33
As long as theres no big changes and it stays as an enthusiust group i dont mind, and i hope we dont loose any fellow members over this.agreed
Post by: AllparDave on February 25, 2011, 09:15:51
Post by: AllparDave on February 25, 2011, 10:50:24
Post by: Ice Cold on February 26, 2011, 17:38:12
https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=6733.0
If you know of a better map, that would be awesome too.
Thanks!
Post by: MyDodgeDip on February 26, 2011, 18:12:56
So I'll post it here. Can we get the member map as a sticky?
https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=6733.0
If you know of a better map, that would be awesome too.
Thanks!
yea, that map kinda sucks to use, if anyone knows of a better one we should use it.
Post by: Patrick on March 02, 2011, 16:07:22
Look forward to what the new owners do....
Post by: Warpspeed on March 06, 2011, 11:48:42
Wow, gone for a while and everything changes...Thanks for the years at Diipy.org and Good luck on your future projects Frank.Ditto, I didn't even notice anything. May the good times keep rolling! Thanks, Frank
Look forward to what the new owners do....
Post by: AllparDave on March 18, 2011, 15:56:47
Post by: Mike on March 19, 2011, 13:20:59
Post by: AllparDave on March 19, 2011, 14:40:38
Maybe this would work? http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=46141.120
Post by: Laughing Bear on May 25, 2011, 10:51:17
Post by: AllparDave on May 27, 2011, 08:59:48