Forum Index => The Garage => Topic started by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 18:10:43
Title: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 18:10:43
Hello just joined today, very pleased to find a site for diplomats. I have a few questions about my car, ever since i bought it about 4 months ago it has been acting weird and breaking down. When i went to a stop sign and stopped than hit the gas my car would die if i gave it too much gas. i had the carb cleaned and rebuilt, also a few other things the mechanic did. that fixed that problem but still i have barely any power going up a steep even smaller hill. i feel like it should have way more power than it does. i have to get to like 45 before i hit the hill and by the time im half way it up it goes about 15 and doesn't kick into a higher gear. also just started happening after we fixed the stalling problem was that my pedal or throttle or whatever was sticking and pretty much driving itself i didn't have my foot on the pedal for at least 10 mins and the car accelerated by itself until i pulled over put it in park and hit the gas hard like 4 times and it finally let go and went back to idleing normal. just wondering any thoughts if its a throttle cable, fast idle solenoid, fuel sending unit, or the baffles in the gas tank or what it could be? please if you have any ideas let me know id appreciate it.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 79dodge4ever on January 25, 2015, 18:55:36
does the throttle cable pull the carb all the way open when you push it to the floor with the engine off? sounds like either the mechanic didn't adjust throttle or done very poor carb rebuild
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: fifthcrunch on January 25, 2015, 19:18:15
I think 79 has got it. Take off the air cleaner. Block the gas pedal to the floor with a piece of 2x4 against the seat and look down the carb. The throttle plate should be all the way open. It probably isn't. So the throttle cable should be adjusted.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 20:29:17
ok just checked and the throttle plate is all the way open any ideas on what else it could be?
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 79dodge4ever on January 25, 2015, 20:36:08
ok just checked and the throttle plate is all the way open any ideas on what else it could be?
sounds like fuel delievery problems, weather it be a poorly rebuilt carb or a bad fuel line (lines won't necessary drip)
take line off front of carb, unhook coil wire and sit it away from carb (sparks can jump) put the fuel line in a glass jar and crank the car for about 10-15 seconds, note how much fuel is in the glass jar and the clarity of it; good fuel from a clean tank should be very slightly yellow in color; if it looks like urine its been sitting and or getting dirt in it
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 21:20:31
i have a feeling it has to do with my choke because it doesn't close when started and slowly open when its running im no mechanic and don't know too much but that seems wrong. would that cause it to stick and idle high. its like my foot is pressed on the gas when its not. it could drive by itself sometimes, it accelerates slowly but goes without pushing the pedal.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: Malcolm from Canada on January 25, 2015, 21:29:01
What's the doing during all this acceleration ?
I asks, on account of it having a kickdown adjustment as well and worse yet;
The transmission's etxerior linkage actuation depends on a bell crank that rotates on a spindle that is NOTORIOUS for seizing to the spindle and/or getting very hard to kickdown.
This can really p!$$ on your acceleration efforts in a big way.
Malcolm
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 21:43:40
dam that's the last thing i wanted to hear is that it has to do with the transmission so whats the best option here brand new transmission or what? i mean the cars in great shape interior and exterior wise it has 140000 on it i believe or 40000 only 5 numbers on the odometer, so i plan on restoring it any way. Let me know what you think, thanks
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: lsm360 on January 25, 2015, 21:51:59
I don't think he is talking about needing a trans rebuild or new one, but just the exterior linkages.
Something that struck me was your mention of it not upshifting. Wonder if it is starting off in second or even third gear due to sticking valve body in trans. Did car sit awhile? I would do a trans filter and fluid change. Also try manually downshifting and upshift and see if it is indeed shifting thru the gears.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 22:20:30
yea that's starting to make sense because when i bought the car he said it sat for about 2 years. im hoping its something simple like that and not some huge issue but i guess ill try those things and if that's not it back to where im at now. i appreciate your help everyone thanks
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: The Cap on January 25, 2015, 22:23:15
First off.... Welcome aboard!
Well here's my two cents.....
If it was sitting or mechanically neglected it's going to need some maintenance.
Issues could be.... Gummed up carb linkages Bad gas, Clogged fuel filter, Possibly fuel pump? When was it's last full tune up? If the carb linkages are sticking then it might not be kicking down to curb idle resulting in high idle but clogged lines or filter could result in not enough fuel delivery when you're actually driving. Then there's tranny linkages that might be sticking.
Realistically you can't expect a 28 year old car to perform flawlessly without keeping on top of the maintenance.
I daily drive an 87 Fifth. Sounds to me like it might just need some basic upkeep.
Just my thoughts....
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: 87Dippy on January 25, 2015, 23:22:57
oh yea i agree but like i said it sat for 2 years i changed the fuel filters and the fuel pump, i haven't changed the spark plugs but i have them and plan on doing em tomorrow. I've done 3 oil changes in 6 months flushes the radiator fluid and was gonna look into a transmission flush or just changing the fluid and filter but i heard that it can mes the transmission up even more? either way im gonna get a new gas tank, fuel sending unit, choke thermostat coil and check into the transmission problem more.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: The Cap on January 26, 2015, 06:56:37
I would do the basis first before I go throwing gas tanks and such at it....new plugs, wires, cap and rotor first. Might make a huge difference right there. A tank full of premium wouldn't hurt either. Old gas runs like old ass.... I run nothing but premium in mine and they all love it.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: fifthcrunch on January 26, 2015, 07:04:57
There can be a problem with the fast idle solenoid. They stick sometimes, which will raise the idle speed. They can be adjusted. But that wouldn't explain the really poor acceleration/no power. I would suspect the carb rebuild. If the car still has the lean burn (computer on the air cleaner, etc), this carb can harder to do right. Sounds like the main jets are plugged up, which would mean taking the carb back apart. Another possible cause is a spark plug gap that is too tight. Were the plugs changed recently? The questions raised about trans kick down adjustment make good points, but that kind of thing will give poor initial acceleration but then straighten out as the speed increases.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: Prospect62 on January 26, 2015, 07:44:44
I had a similar issue with my old 87 Gran Fury - it would NOT kick down into "passing gear" when I needed more RPM's, no matter how or when I mashed the go pedal. It would just bog and actually slow down even though I was pushing the accelerator.
Turned out the kickdown linkage (mentioned above) was not adjusted properly and very tight. Seems as though it wasn't working much at all. I ended up replacing the 2 barrel carburetor with a 4 barrel which required a new kickdown linkage and adjustments. That solved the issue.
With the issue you describe, my vote is the kick down linkage (or "throttle valve" linkage as Mopar calls it) being messed up somewhere along the line. If this is the problem, make sure it is addressed quickly - from what I understand, having a non-functioning throttle valve system is a good way to fry a Mopar transmission in short order.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: lsm360 on January 26, 2015, 13:01:04
Yes, if you are running around in too high of a gear it will deff damage trans eventually. Check that adjustment and the linkages conditions and manually shift if you have to until things are in order.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: lsm360 on January 26, 2015, 13:02:54
I would get the fuel out of the tank and lines asap, especially if you have ethanol there. Two years of sitting is plenty of time for that crap to go bad.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: DobaMark on January 26, 2015, 13:06:21
Lots of possibilities. Bum carb, improper timing, timing not advancing, restricted fuel delivery, plugged catalytic converter, etc. Did you go through the basics like a tune up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter)? What about the fuel system - did it set with gas in it for 2 years? Did you drain that out or use it? How much has it been driven since?
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: Malcolm from Canada on January 27, 2015, 20:26:34
dam that's the last thing i wanted to hear is that it has to do with the transmission so whats the best option here brand new transmission or what? i mean the cars in great shape interior and exterior wise it has 140000 on it i believe or 40000 only 5 numbers on the odometer, so i plan on restoring it any way. Let me know what you think, thanks
Don't be a-fearin' muh friend
None of that linkage cleaning/sanding/lubricating/adjusting will cost you a red cent.
If you really have no way of jacking it up safely you can do it all from the driver's side with long arms and a mirror (though it'd be a whole lot easier if it were jacked up.
The kickdown linkage is so simple it's child's play and requires only a 1/2" wrench and a little trial and error.
First though, you want to make sure it even needs adjustment. More likely it's just rusted itself together with the stud it rides on.
Consult your factory service manual or pictures from it, here on this site, and get the wire brush, sandpaper and grease or anti-seize out.
All you need are needle nose pliers and a 1/2" wrench to remove the linkage pins and bolt. Heck you might get lucky and get it all moving without even removing it and just spraying some penetrating oil and working it all with your hands.
NEVER forget the upper linkage spring, at the back of the engine either. If it that ain't there, that can lead to a lot of what you're describing !
Don't spend a dime until you've checked these freebies first
Malcolm
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: The Cap on January 27, 2015, 21:19:25
None of that linkage cleaning/sanding/lubricating/adjusting will cost you a red cent.
If you really have no way of jacking it up safely you can do it all from the driver's side with long arms and a mirror (though it'd be a whole lot easier if it were jacked up.
The kickdown linkage is so simple it's child's play and requires only a 1/2" wrench and a little trial and error.
First though, you want to make sure it even needs adjustment. More likely it's just rusted itself together with the stud it rides on.
Consult your factory service manual or pictures from it, here on this site, and get the wire brush, sandpaper and grease or anti-seize out.
All you need are needle nose pliers and a 1/2" wrench to remove the linkage pins and bolt. Heck you might get lucky and get it all moving without even removing it and just spraying some penetrating oil and working it all with your hands.
NEVER forget the upper linkage spring, at the back of the engine either. If it that ain't there, that can lead to a lot of what you're describing !
Don't spend a dime until you've checked these freebies first
Malcolm
X2
Cover the basics that'll will cost next to nothing before you go throwing money at it. All of the basically free things mentioned here should be first on the list.
A tune up is around $120 worth of stuff....that should be a top priority. If you don't have a factory service manual I'll pretty sure all the diagrams for all the adjustments are kicking around on here somewhere.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: Ron Price on January 31, 2015, 21:52:55
Honestly my car doesn't go up hills the best either. And it also doesn't go into passing gear very easy. I read in the factory service manual that the 3-2 down shift won't occur until 75-85mph. So I figured that's why. Seems awful high to me. Other than that my car runs and shifts fine. I adjusted my linkages with no change. And they were not sticking. Is this the first carbureted car you have drivin? Because they are never going to run like a computer controlled car. And a two barrel 318 isn't a very powerful engine... I'd put those plugs in. Check the vacuum and timing. Sounds like maybe the timing might not be advancing properly. Other than that I'd say maybe its fine and that's just how these cars are. Some cars just aren't hill climbers. I imagine the rear end gears these cars have doesn't help that fact.
Title: Re: 1987 diplomat salon
Post by: The Cap on January 31, 2015, 22:10:32
A full proper tune up and running premium makes a big difference. My mission when I got mine was to bring it back to factory spec. Once I did that with the premium she has no trouble climbing hills.
Good fuel, good spark, good fuel delivery and no vacuum leaks. These are what make the difference between a 2 bbl 318 that runs okay and one that runs great....the way they're supposed to run.