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Author Topic: 2015 Project Log  (Read 2138 times)

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MarkM

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2015 Project Log
« on: May 03, 2015, 14:35:05 »

I didn't have enough cash this year to do everything I wanted, so the brakes got put on the back burner until next year.  This year is devoted to overhauling the abysmal Mopar steering.

I've driven cars with Firm Feel stage 3 boxes in them and while better, it still leave a lot to be desired in that there is a good amount of slop at the top (about 15 degrees) before the tires start turning.  Borgeson Steering came out with a bolt-in box a couple of years ago for us Mopar guys and since then it has been through two revisions; this box I'm going to install is the second gen box.  Main features is that it is 15lbs lighter, is physically smaller, feels like modern rack and pinion, and has a 14:1 ratio already built-in.  This is going to make header clearance for the big block install a lot easier.



Next up are some more parts from Firm Feel: tubular upper control arms, HD front and rear sway bar links, and new upper control arm pivot bars (my stockers have the crosshatch on the bottoms wore to nothing).



I take the control arms in on Tuesday to have my shop install them.  I figured if the shop 30 minutes away from the house I might as well have them install the arms too since it was coming their way for an alignment.  The box I'll install myself when I've got time, but with getting ready to move to a new home it might be a while.

Fun times ahead!
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87' Fifth Avenue - 512/518/8.75 - built for twisties

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MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 14:35:18 »

Reserved.   :p
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87' Fifth Avenue - 512/518/8.75 - built for twisties

Ark

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 14:54:59 »

I am definitely interested in a report on how the box works. It's a ways into the future, but definitely on the wish list.

I hear you on the crosshatching on the bottom of the control arm pivots. Mine got wiped out when I did the UCA bushings and upper ball joints. Just braking too hard would dislodge the control arm no matter how much I torqued the nuts. I ended up getting a chisel and hammering new teeth into it just so they would stay in place.

I love Mopar, but relying on nothing but friction to hold your alignment settings is a terrible design choice.  :roll:
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brotherGood

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 14:57:50 »

Is the PN on that box 800221?

I'll be looking forward to your opinion of it..after driving a newer vehicle for so long, that AHB box was so sketchy. Yes, its old..but was definitely a weird feeling..Lol
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Ice Cold

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 16:20:44 »

Gezzz, I'm usually up on M stuff, but never heard of the Borgeson Steering box.

Not enough Mopar mags in the last number of yrs I guess.

Back 97 when I did a FF Stage 2, I thought that a Stage 3 would be overboard, but in hindsight, should have done the 3.

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MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 16:49:50 »

Is the PN on that box 800221?

I'll be looking forward to your opinion of it..after driving a newer vehicle for so long, that AHB box was so sketchy. Yes, its old..but was definitely a weird feeling..Lol


It might be; I ordered the box from Bergman here: [size=78%]http://bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0033[/size]


My Dad is going to beat me to it though.  We installed his box a couple weeks ago and finished up his 408 stroker motor over the weekend.  Car should be ready to fire for the first time Tuesday.  I'll keep you posted.
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87' Fifth Avenue - 512/518/8.75 - built for twisties

MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 16:53:33 »

I am definitely interested in a report on how the box works. It's a ways into the future, but definitely on the wish list.

I hear you on the crosshatching on the bottom of the control arm pivots. Mine got wiped out when I did the UCA bushings and upper ball joints. Just braking too hard would dislodge the control arm no matter how much I torqued the nuts. I ended up getting a chisel and hammering new teeth into it just so they would stay in place.

I love Mopar, but relying on nothing but friction to hold your alignment settings is a terrible design choice.  :roll:

Yeah, totally bat[Edited by Farley's] nuts.  I took the arms and pivots into the shop last week to have them installed and it turns out I had the wrong pivot arms.  The ones pictured are offset and meant to fix the sagging K-frame problem.  Using those with the tubular upper control which already have more positive camber built in kicked the wheel out too far.  Wound up having to take it apart again and reuse the factory pivot arms.  My mechanic did exactly as you did and repaired the cross hatching with an air chisel.

Upper control arms are now installed.  I just have to find time now to get the sway bar brackets and steering box installed.  Being in between garages right now is going to push things off a little.
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87' Fifth Avenue - 512/518/8.75 - built for twisties

Ark

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 18:02:57 »

Huh. I would have thought there was enough inward adjustment to use the offset control arms even if the subframe wasn't sagged inwards.

There's an untapped market if you want to start manufacturing new UCAs and mounts that use cam bolts for adjustments...:D
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MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 22:55:10 »

I should probably report on my progress: the arms and steering box have been installed for over a month now and I can confidently say that my 5A handles like a modern car.  The steering is nice and tight with the added bonus of no 15 degrees of slop at center like the old OEM boxes.  The Borgeson box with the adapters and all the components to make it work set me back about $850, but was totally worth it.  Pricing it out it is actually not that much more expensive than a stage 3 FF box with fast ratio arms.

  • No slop whatsoever in the steering
  • I can actually feel the road through the steering wheel
  • Box is much smaller than OEM and is 15lbs lighter
  • Built-in 14:1 ratio
The tubular upper arms added a fair bit stiffness by themselves.  I ran them on the car for about a week before installing the new box and was pleased with the results.


The last upgrade that needs to be done is braking.  Brakes on these cars are woefully inadequate for anything but Sunday driving.  Viper calipers in the front and Cobras in back will be the plan for next year.  Doctor Diff sells complete kits that are entirely bolt on.  Then I can finally start working on the 512ci big block.  Fun times ahead...
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Sublime440

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 22:15:36 »

Screw the brakes, my old Charger is going to be running a 512 with much worse brakes and a more maniacal driver.. Tell us more about the 512..
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MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 21:50:00 »

Screw the brakes, my old Charger is going to be running a 512 with much worse brakes and a more maniacal driver.. Tell us more about the 512..

I picked up a 400 right before Christmas after I decided to give Dad my 360 roller block so he could build a 408 (post coming on that soon).  I figured I've screwing around with small blocks long enough; I should have built something from the very beginning that I would be happy with.  I wanted to use a low-deck B motor since it is physically smaller, about 30lbs lighter and is actually a tougher block with more meat around the mains.  Plans for the motor will go something like this:

  • 440 Source 512ci stroker kit with a 2100 gram bob weight.  The 360 I have now is using factory rods with boat anchor Speed Pro forged pistons.  The motor is lazy to me and my Dad's 408, even with the added stroke, revs a lot quicker than my 360.
  • A hydraulic roller cam of some flavor
  • Milodon road race pan
  • For heads Trick Flow is supposed to be coming out with a CNC ported head that flows 320ish at .600".
  • 10.5 - 11:1 compression
  • Main bearing girdle
  • 440 Source aluminum water pump neck with a passenger side inlet so I can reuse my new three core Champion radiator.
  • Shorty headers of some flavor...
I don't want to give up the 518 either so now I'm looking at an SMR engine adapter for the trans.


This build is going to be an expensive undertaking for sure.  This is why I was leaning on doing the brakes first as I can have them done with a single year's budget.  This motor is going to take a while...

http://bangshift.com/general-news/new-products/sema-2014-trick-flow-introduces-new-power-port-240-big-block-chrysler-cylinder-heads-new-option-wedge/
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 21:51:45 by MarkM »
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Sublime440

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 22:50:13 »

You're using a 0.040 400 with a 4.25 crank or?

I'm doing a 440 based 512. I should have had the cylinders sonic checked first, but...I'm going to get to that shortly and sleeve any cylinders less than 0.120 after removing 0.060 from the cylinders.

I did have it line bored with new Pro-Gram billet main caps and ARP studs. I already have several parts laying around and for the cam I'm using the Voodoo 20230713 cam, 295/303 0.560/0.565 hydraulic roller.

So what is the benefit of the road race pan? I looked at it but I thought it used an external oiling system? I am going to use the 8 qt Milodon with the 3/8" pickup and the windage tray that supposedly clears the stroker.

I'm interested in the heads you mentioned, as of right now, I'm planning on using the Perf. RPM heads from the 440 that was in the car.
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MarkM

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Re: 2015 Project Log
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 14:53:43 »

Close, it's the .035" over 4.250" kit that will yield 10.3:1 compression with those heads.  The pan hold 7 quarts, is fully baffled and doesn't hang below the K frame; they make two versions of this pan: one for external and the other internal.  The sump on the pan only hangs 5 1/2" down.  Since I plan on eventually doing some autox with this car I thought it would be a good idea.


http://www.milodon.com/2012-Milodon-Catalog/Road%20Race%20Oil%20Pans.pdf

I don't know for sure yet if it will clear a 4.250" stroke though.


I'd like to keep it under 6,000 RPM and will be going back down to a 3.23 gear.  I don't think I'll miss the 4.10 with the torque this motor will put down.  Keeping the OD I should be able to take this car on some long distance trips.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 14:56:57 by MarkM »
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87' Fifth Avenue - 512/518/8.75 - built for twisties

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