Farley`s Dodge Diplomat Forum

Forum Index => The Garage => Topic started by: brotherGood on September 03, 2010, 19:12:59

Title: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 03, 2010, 19:12:59
Hello, I have an '86 dip. police package, it is my first diplomat and i was wondering a few things on it. First, i was wondering how i could locate things like its original color, shipping location..things like that. Also, i was wondering if there was a budget way to get around 300 hp, so far i have added true duals, and thats pretty much it. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Ark on September 03, 2010, 19:32:27
Cheapest way to get to that range is to just build a mild 360 and drop it in. Getting that with a 318 requires a new intake/carb setup, camshaft, head work, etc. A 360 can make that kind of power with little more than external bolt-on modifications. In the end it's usually cheaper, faster, and easier to set up a 360 on an engine stand and swap it in over a weekend.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 03, 2010, 23:27:30
Well, in regards to swapping motors, i honestly didnt want to go that route, but if i did, i would probably try and shoe horn a 440 into it, if it would fit, because i can get a 440 and 727 for under 1000 bucks regularly on craigslist and i have a buddy who would get it going, and i would just have to worry about a new rear-end. I had planned on at least getting a new intake and carb of somesort, and saving the cam work and all that mess for when i have another vehicle to drive.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: DobaMark on September 04, 2010, 05:52:33
Color is on the fender tag:
https://www.dippy.org/info/dipvins.html
though the pics of the fender tag are really upside down.
Once you have the code, then go to someplace like
http://www.paintscratch.com/
to translate the code to a color name.  If the code is 999, then it is a custom paint job and you'd have to find a build sheet inside the car for the exact color.
As for the original point of sale, there's really nothing that tells that.  On my first 1988 Plymouth police car, luckily it had the build sheet to identify the custom color (a special silver for the Ohio Highway Patrol) and the ship to dealer for the state of Ohio.
Carfax will list vehicle history but won't go back far enough to show your original title for a 1986.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: patrickgrossman on September 04, 2010, 06:19:12
Hello, I have an '86 dip. police package, it is my first diplomat and i was wondering a few things on it. First, i was wondering how i could locate things like its original color, shipping location..things like that. Also, i was wondering if there was a budget way to get around 300 hp, so far i have added true duals, and thats pretty much it. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

is it a 2bbl or 4bbl motor?

cheap way to get ~300 HP: 4bbl intake & carb, cam in the [email protected]@.050 range with as short of advertised duration as you can get  (say, a lunati voodoo 60400 or 401 for a flat tappet), headers, and magnum heads off of a 90's dodge truck/van

if you get the heads from the junkyard, get the roller cam/lifters/lifter retainers (dogbones and spider), and pushrods, it'll all retrofit into an '86 block,  and get the cam reground by bullet cams (www.bulletcams.com) with their HR259/316 lobe for both intake and exhaust.  get springs from hughes (part number #1110) and their retainers, or retainers off of some 2.2L/2.5L chrylser motors in the junkyard.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 04, 2010, 10:37:25
@DobaMark--thanks for that, i looked it up this morning and saw that it was originally white. We originally thought that, but i wanted to make sure before i painted it.

@patrickgrossman--it is a 4bbl. How close do you think i could get with a good intake/carb setup? Im sure i cant get around 100 hp from that, but how much do you think i can.

also, im finding it hard to believe that the chrysler numbers that rated the hp and all that are right. Is anyone else thinking the same thing, or is it just me.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Mike on September 04, 2010, 12:03:13
You're not going to get 100HP just from changing the intake and carb especially when it's already a 4 bbl.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 04, 2010, 12:24:03
The best thing you can do is cam/intake/springs/carb/ignition/exhaust swap. That would put some downtime on your car though, and if you don't have a 2nd car to drive it will be aggravating. In the meantime, something you can do that will make a small difference (not a 300HP difference) is chuck the factory exhaust and install a Y-pipe with a free flowing muffler and install the MP electronic ignition along with the carb and intake. This will get you CLOSER, not close, to your goal.  The cam/springs should get you much closer when you get a free weekend to dedicate to working on getting dirty.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 04, 2010, 14:19:22
Yeah, i know im not going to get 100 hp from the intake/carb, but i didnt know what i could expect from those and where that would get me in relation to my ultimate goal of 300 hp. As i said, all i have done is gotten a set of dual exhaust on it, from the manifold back.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Ark on September 04, 2010, 14:29:50
Yeah, i know im not going to get 100 hp from the intake/carb, but i didnt know what i could expect from those and where that would get me in relation to my ultimate goal of 300 hp. As i said, all i have done is gotten a set of dual exhaust on it, from the manifold back.

From experience, a 4bbl carb, electronic ignition, aluminum intake, long tube headers and dual exhaust will get you somewhere in the mid 16's in the 1/4. With everything running right you might expect around 210-225 peak horsepower. Lean burn, stock manifolds and tri-cats do an incredible job of strangling a 318.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Ice Cold on September 04, 2010, 14:48:46
"The heads are where the power is."
That's what Herb McCandless kept on saying. :whist:
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 04, 2010, 16:16:09
"The heads are where the power is."

That's also where the $$$ is
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 04, 2010, 16:19:01
Well, through various sites ive seen that on a 318, the 360 heads are a plus, and that a new cam, intake, and carb, that it will be up at least past 250. Regardless, being on a budget, what would be the best cam, head, intake, headers, and carb choices that i can make.
Thanks for everyones replies, its the first time ive actually gotten to build a car up, so im kinda uneducated on the subject.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 04, 2010, 16:23:31
Those 360 heads are good IMO, but they aren't good for a high HP build. They're open chamber heads and don't have much room for machine work and you won't have a decent CR without going with a domed piston. There are better heads out there that will not only allow for a higher CR but will outflow the stock 360 heads right out of the box.

Even so, I'm still debating using my stock 360 heads or going aftermarket. I don't know alot of what's available aftermarket other than I have seen builds using non-factory heads making some impressive power. I'm cheap, so I will probably try and re-use my stock 360 heads unless a bargain comes along I can't refuse. I'm doing a 390 stroker next summer and my goal will be 400HP. I'll let you know when I get there and how it feels. 
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 04, 2010, 16:32:18
thats fine, I appreciate it. I honestly wont touch the motor much until next summer anyway, simply because of ohio winters, and i dont have another vehicle that i can bury..haha. Im just kinda getting my ducks in a row so to speak for next spring, because hopefully by then i can get working on the body work that needs done, and get it into paint.

Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: DobaMark on September 04, 2010, 17:16:51
If you have a 4 bbl engine (or a pre-1985 2bbl), you've got to get compression up if you want to make power and take any real advantage of intake, exhaust or cam mods.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 04, 2010, 23:33:31
So, basically what im gathering is this..I would have to change the cam, intake, carb, and headers, but to really make those worthwhile--change heads to improve the compression. Is that about it?
As for now, i believe thats all i have question wise, but as my venture continues...I'll be sure to keep everyone updated.
Thanks again
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 05, 2010, 00:08:58
No, you don't have to change the heads to make more power than what you currently have. However, to get the most out of the other mods, you will have to do something with the heads. The cam, exhaust, intake etc upgrades will gain you some considerable power, but they won't gain full potential without getting into the heads. The problem with swapping the heads is it's very costly, and since it sounds like you just want a nice driver with decent power I wouldn't worry about spending money on heads right now. But yes, you will have to swap the heads or do something to boost CR if you want to add more power later on. The factory CR and those heads will only get you so far on the power level before you just have to dig into your pockets and tear the engine apart.

If you want to start building decent power beyond what you have, stick with the basics everyone mentioned. If you want to get into some real performance, you'll have to get into the engine, which not only means heads but pistons as well. If you're going to go that far with a 318, you might as well stroke it or yank it out for something bigger like a 360. If it were me and I was figuring this all out again, I would do little things like what everyone mentioned before I start getting into the engine. The hardest part of what everyone recommended is the cam swap and really it isn't that hard even for a beginner with the help available on here.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 05, 2010, 00:14:52
Ok, so basically the heads/pistons and all that mess would be something to do towards the end i guess. First things i would do, if im getting the order right would be intake/carb, then cam, then headers?. Ive got true dual exhaust on it, but from hearing other people, the stock headers arent all that great. And then after all that mess is done, worry about heads/pistons/etc. Right?

What do you think the intake/carb will get me realistically, then cam, then headers..granted, i'll probably be buying something that i'll get good power but wont kill my fuel economy either. Beyond that, i couldnt tell you like specifically, because being the first one of these ive ever messed with, i have no idea what the difference is between anything.

Thanks
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Ice Cold on September 05, 2010, 00:22:12
Just drop in a 5.7 Hemi with some Jeep manifolds. :whist: It all bolts up. Even keep the tranny.
20 miles a gallon and 300+Hp
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 05, 2010, 00:27:27
haha..i almost dropped one in my '98 ram, but i bought the dip, sold the truck, and blew all the money on guitar stuff that i dont even use anymore :doh: how difficult would that be to set up, like accessorys, and pretty much everything else..because if i can do it easily, id honestly want to go that route cause it'd be cool. no joke.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 05, 2010, 00:36:53
I'll put it this way. All the information you're getting is good information.

What you have to do is determine exactly where you want to go on this build. You said 300HP. That can be done on a 318, but you have to determine if it's worth the cost, vehicle downtime, work etc.

The heads and pistons are not the last things you do when building an engine. Actually, you work from the inside out. The first thing you do is make sure you have a solid rotating assembly: crank, rods, pistons etc.

You can do one of 2 things with the 318 in your car.

1) Do the basics: cam/intake/carb/ignition/exhaust/valve springs. These are the easiest, most common, and "cheapest" things to do without taking your engine all apart. These things will add power, they are modifications that, except for the cam, are almost impossible to make mistakes on, and they'll help you begin learning what this is all about. When you are done with these mods, you can get in your car and drive it with almost no worries. The upside: it's cheap, easy, and you can get in the car and notice it's faster. The downside: you will be stuck with this power level until you decide to go to the next step below, which, you may find you're content with just doing step1. If you do decide to go to step 2, you'll have to do this all over again....

2) Do a complete build: This means heads, pistons, bolts/hardware, machine work etc and all the other "expensive" things. This is the right way to build real power and get the full potential out of the parts you choose. However, at this point, there is no point in messing with the 318 unless you decide to stroke it or do a 360 swap. This is the point where you'll have to research what exactly you plan on doing for the engine. If you decide on going this route, everyone here can help you pick parts and give pointers of where to go with the build. The upside: you'll have exactly what you want for a motor AND if you build a solid foundation.... heads, pistons, crank, rods...you'll be able to add more down the road if you want to experiment with different cams etc. The downside: this puts ALOT of downtime on your sole driver. It's also alot more expensive. You may get to this point, as a daily driving car, and realize it's too much car to drive everyday.

So it just depends on what you really want. I think doing the basics will make you more than happy for now. Like I said before, I plan on using the same 360 heads when I do my build. I'm not really worried, I think I can get my parts list right and with some needed machine work I think it will be fine.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Ice Cold on September 05, 2010, 00:38:29
haha..i almost dropped one in my '98 ram, but i bought the dip, sold the truck, and blew all the money on guitar stuff that i dont even use anymore :doh: how difficult would that be to set up, like accessorys, and pretty much everything else..because if i can do it easily, id honestly want to go that route cause it'd be cool. no joke.

I guess it's a breeze if you put a carb on the 5.7. All you need then is a control box, plug in 3 things and it's a go. Even keep the A/C and the cruise.
And the car will run on this crappy gas they have now.
Herb McCandless has one in his 61 300G and gave me the lowdown

Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 05, 2010, 00:50:46
Well, as i have continuously said over and over, thanks for all the help and advise from everyone. Its hard to find advise around here..in the middle of chevy country, but anything is valued-especially at my inexperience.

@Charger440RT; I honestly will probably pretty much follow step one as you had it. for the main reason of not having another vehicle/the money for all of that. I understand what you mean by actually working your way from the inside out, i should have thought of something like that. I just have no idea what the cam/intake/carb/exhaust will get me, and i dont understand about the ignition, and im kinda eh on valve springs, simply because i dont know much about them. Will that get me near the 300hp mark?..and i shouldnt have to change anything in the rear-end/trans dept. because of the boost in hp will i?

@Ice Cold; basically, if i can get a 5.7, will it matter if it is a truck motor or not, will i have to change anything, or will it just bolt right in, and be able to go. As i've said, i am pretty much illiterate when it comes to these things. Im sure there are other things i can be asking about it, but i just have no idea where to start on it right now since i had no idea that it was a possiblilty
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Charger440RT on September 05, 2010, 01:10:45
Will that get me near the 300hp mark?..and i shouldnt have to change anything in the rear-end/trans dept. because of the boost in hp will i?


Probably not. But you probably won't know the difference anyway when you get in the car and it performs so much better. You also shouldn't have to change anything else just to support these mods.

The valve springs are something you MIGHT not have to change, and chances are you won't. The reason goes back to what Mark said. You can't add anything beyond what your stock heads and CR will handle. This means you are stuck using only certain cams. This is why you need a strong, solid rotating assembly....incase you want to change parts to bump up HP, you want to make sure your engine will handle it, and like me, you want something already in place so you don't have to tear it apart.....again. Basically, the biggest cam you you want to use would be something like a Voodoo 256 cam, maybe.....a 262... Usually those cams don't require special springs, just depends on whether yours are wore out or not. And actually, I used 42 year old springs that were "worn" on another 318 I have with a Comp 260H cam and drive the car everyday with no problems.

The ignition is just one of those things that explains itself. Basically you're getting rid of the computer controlled Lean Burn which some people claim is faulty, some like it, some don't know what exactly it is. I replaced mine because 1) it was already missing and 2) the Mopar Perf igniton conversion gives you more, hotter spark which will support more power as you add parts.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 270SE on September 05, 2010, 01:56:54
Those 360 heads are good IMO, but they aren't good for a high HP build. They're open chamber heads and don't have much room for machine work and you won't have a decent CR without going with a domed piston. There are better heads out there that will not only allow for a higher CR but will outflow the stock 360 heads right out of the box.

Even so, I'm still debating using my stock 360 heads or going aftermarket. I don't know alot of what's available aftermarket other than I have seen builds using non-factory heads making some impressive power. I'm cheap, so I will probably try and re-use my stock 360 heads unless a bargain comes along I can't refuse. I'm doing a 390 stroker next summer and my goal will be 400HP. I'll let you know when I get there and how it feels. 
They're fine for a high HP build, that's why they were put on everything.

I'm running a Voodoo 250 and was running MP .500 springs until I stopped using those heads. With the 318 springs you have to be careful because the 318 cams were around .400 lift. If you are only running a little more than that, they are in good shape, and

I run pump gas. It works okay. I used to use 87 in the 318 when it was stock, no compression, no power, no timing, no reason not to.

The 5.7 requires mounts. I don't actually know if these are made right now for these apps. (the '73-up spool mounts) And ignition control. It will cost a decent bit to start to get into. And an oil pan in any case. Don't know how the factory accessories bolt up.

The 360 swap was easy. Converter, washer's on driver's side, and bolt it up like the 318 came out. But as long as the 318's still healthy and is a 4bbl motor, might as well leave it there for now.



I'd do ignition, intake, cam, exhaust. Should get you close enough.

Those heads on that motor are probably about how they need to be.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2010, 13:45:34
And after you've done doing all this to the 318 if you did what Ark said originally and used a 360 you wouldn't have had to do as much to it or if you did it all to the different engine you would be getting more power.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Woodvark on September 05, 2010, 20:07:17
And after you've done doing all this to the 318 if you did what Ark said originally and used a 360 you wouldn't have had to do as much to it or if you did it all to the different engine you would be getting more power.

And it would be great if someone only about three hours away had a 360 + .030 with SP 405P30 flat top pistons, 974 heads with Comp 995 springs, a Comp 268H cam, Eddy intake and other good stuff that will eaislly make 300 hp that could be bought for less than the cost of a 318 build.  :whist:
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 06, 2010, 00:33:13
Woodvark; honestly, if i had the money i would STRONGLY consider it. But as of now, all i have to offer would be the 318, and a high-end guitar. Thats about all i have right now, which im sure wouldnt be near the worth of that 360. And even then i would feel as if i was lowballing you on it.
Thanks anyway though
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 06, 2010, 01:21:36
Ok, so i believe i've gathered some kind of a parts list for the engine

comp cams or voodoo cams 260?--is that hydraulic round tappet, flat tappet?..idk what the diff. is
mopar performance electronic ignition conversion kit
intake--Edelbrock?..something that i wont kill my mileage but will till get some power
and headers..no idea

any suggestions would be outstanding, but i do believe im starting to get it a little..haha
Also, should i change the carb since im changing ignition and intake?
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: DobaMark on September 06, 2010, 06:16:39
Yes, if you change the ignition, you have to change to a non-feedback carb,
Honestly, there's no great need to replace the factory 4bbl intake, it's decent though it outweighs an aluminum one, especially if the replacement carb is a spreadbore like the stock one,
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 8D5 Gran Fury on September 06, 2010, 10:49:35
Welcome, Good Brother- these guys know their Mopar, so you are in good hands. If you get down to trying to choose between 2 or 3 cams, give the folks at Lunati or Comps a call. They'll ask you tire size, rear gear, engine size and specs/ what it came in. Of course, they'll ask you what you want to do with the car, too. Then they give you a recommendation for the P/N you'll need. Your '86 should be a hydraulic roller cam...
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 270SE on September 06, 2010, 10:52:13
Go smaller if you go Voodoo, like the 256 or 250.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: moparmuscle88 on September 06, 2010, 14:48:13
intake, 4bbl, ignition, dual exhaust, and get an 8.25 or 8.75 with some better gears in them, and you'll feel a difference right away. 

even the rearend by itself will make a big difference that you can feel
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 06, 2010, 22:33:00
Ok, so I guess im lookin at the mopar electronic ignition conversion kit, a non-feedback carb, an intake, headers, and a voodoo 256 or 260 cam.

first; how do i tell the diff. between a non-feedback carb, and what would probably be a good carb for power and mileage.
second; what kind of intake. I honestly will probably change it, because its lookin kinda ugly right now, and if im gonna have everything around it all shiny, i might as well get a new one. just dont know what kind
third; what kind of headers am i looking at. something cheap and efficient for what im after, but once again..i dont know what exact product im after.
fourth; what is the diff. between the 256, and 260 cam.

Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Mike on September 07, 2010, 00:07:35
Do some searches here on the forum. That'll bring up what kind of headers to get, what intakes are good and everything you want to know about the carb.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 07, 2010, 21:23:24
Well everyone, thanks for all the help on the motor stuff, but as for now, im having a more important problem. My ac/heat controls were not working right, so i took the wood bezel off and carefully unscrewed the controls from the frame or whatever, and the pieces that the screw went through broke. But then i went to look at the hoses and the connection where the two sets of hoses met, like just fell apart. So now i have the six hoses completely disconnected from the connection peice that sends them to the unit itself..if that makes sense.
anyway, how do i go about getting a new piece and getting the hoses back in.
Thanks
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: Mike on September 08, 2010, 00:40:30
Do a search for that too. There's a good post floating around with pictures of how to fix it. It could be in the library area too.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 08, 2010, 09:01:22
Well, I have found what colors go where, but I need a new connector piece. Can I get one of those at autozone or something, or do I have to create my own setup?
Thanks
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 8D5 Gran Fury on September 08, 2010, 11:39:39
Ask around...some folks have a mighty stash of parts, dealers many still have some in stock, et cetera
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 270SE on September 08, 2010, 12:09:38
fourth; what is the diff. between the 256, and 260 cam.


The 260 has more lift and duration.

Get whatever intake you want. You could run a stock 273 (525cfm limit before a carb spacer or clearancing), stock 340 squarebore (625cfm limit before a carb spacer or clearancing), stock 340/360 spreadbore (with adapter if you want a squarebore carb), Performer/Streetmaster/SP2P (look for one cheap, they are out there), LD4B, LD340, Street Dominator, really whatever you want. Any of those are readily available under $100. You can just get whichever you find cheapest first.

You could also just get a 360 2 barrel intake or one of those adapters and run a bigger, better 2bbl.

Most of the cheap headers work well on these.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 08, 2010, 14:31:49
ok. Thanks for the help everyone. Now I just gotta figure out my options on everything, and then get the money to act.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: lsm360 on September 08, 2010, 15:13:17
In regards to your HVAC system....same thing has happened to me and many M owners....when I took my control unit off that piece was all dried up and crumbled apart....I was able to find a used one on ebay....if I remember correctly, it was from a different Chrysler vehicle, but I counted the inlets/outlets on the ebay photo, and there were the same number, so I bought it, and it worked....try searching "Chrysler AC", "Dodge AC", etc....you will find one in short time.

Larry
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 08, 2010, 22:31:28
Ok, i went to the ford/chrysler service dept, and they were jerks about it, but said they had them. the hose and connector for 61.35 plus tax. Is that good?, i'll get looking on ebay, and hopefully i can find one on there, cause i really dont want to pay that much if i dont have to.
Thanks
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: 8D5 Gran Fury on September 09, 2010, 08:08:09
New OEM piece- try to find on eBay, but if not I'd scour some of the discount/bulk Mopar parts dealers. Ultimately, if they are close in price to what you can find I'd grab it from them because a couple bucks difference is not worth the hassle of the alternative.
Title: Re: '86 police package info
Post by: brotherGood on September 09, 2010, 15:48:38
well, i spent what felt like forever and didnt see anything that would work for the clip. so we just decided to splice all of it together, and it works thanks to all the discussions on here. Only issue im having is the carb wont kick down, but the last time it got worked on, it did the same thing, and all the problem was, was the negative batt. cable was bumped and it messed something up on the carb. Well, i had the cables off for a side project, and i believe that i messed the kickdown up again.
How do i check the freon levels for the unit, because im doubting that there is much in there, but idk how to check it.
Thanks