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Author Topic: More stalling problems  (Read 1508 times)

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MoparDan

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More stalling problems
« on: December 16, 2019, 15:35:35 »

Even after having the carburetor professionally rebuilt the engine still often stalls at lights with the transmission in gear, and always stalls if the headlights are on, I installed new spark plugs a week ago and now the engine usually idles smooth for a few seconds before becoming very rough and quickly stalls, I did notice afterwards that my spark plug gapper looks to have some wear on it where the . 035 is, I've had it for years and have gapped many spark plugs for 318 engines, so I have hunch that's part of the problem, but then why does the engine now idle good for a few seconds before getting rough? if I gapped the plugs wrong wouldn't the idle instantly be rough? Is the computer causing all this? I've always wanted the computer removed but always get the same response: "technically its an emission device..." all I want is for the engine to not keep stalling, any advice? The engine has about 203,500 miles and I should add that when the engine stalls it always starts right back up as soon as I turn the key
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The driver of a 1985 Plymouth Gran Fury Salon called The Cherry Bomb
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Darth-Car

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2019, 16:05:03 »

I wonder if your timing is slipping, or after all of that mileage your distributor is worn out, or might need a new pickup?  Back in the day you could take a distributor to a good parts store, and they had a Sun tester that they would put it on, and could tell you if it needed rebuilt.  I don't know how you test one these days.
Plus the carb kits today are junk.  I had Darth Car's carb rebuilt 3 times by the same shop.  The guys were very competent, but admitted that the combination of the modern fuels, and the off-shore carb parts were just not working well together.  Different little parts kept melting into goo.  That was causing all kinds of drivability issues for me.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 16:08:21 by Darth-Car »
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Mike

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2019, 18:30:12 »

Did you try raising the idle speed a bit? Sometimes that's all it takes.
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DobaMark

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 08:13:43 »

Besides the possibility of the distributor being worn or the carb still not being quite right (both of which I agree are good possibilities), the timing chain may have lots of slop. It's also possible you have a vacuum leak somewhere. I would not automatically assume it's an issue with the computer.
What did the old spark plugs look like? How long have the new plugs been in? Are they starting to change color?
The reason it may be smooth then stall can be because the computer is adjusting mixture, idle speed, or timing at first start, then as it goes to normal mode the stalling occurs.
One example could be the mixture is slightly rich at first start, so it's smooth. Then the system properly leans out the mixture but there's a vacuum leak and it becomes too lean.
Same could happen with timing, it's covered up at first but then slop in the distributor or timing chain causes the stall.

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lsm360

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 13:14:17 »

What sticks out to me is the fact that it always stalls when the headlights are on. Has me wondering of a possibility of a weak alternator. Probably a long shot, but odd that the headlights have any effect.
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Darth-Car

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2019, 15:33:24 »

In the previous generation electronic ignition cars, they used to say set the curb idle speed with the headlamps ON.  This put the proper load on the alternator.  It made all of the difference in keeping the cars from stalling.
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lsm360

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 16:52:15 »

In the previous generation electronic ignition cars, they used to say set the curb idle speed with the headlamps ON.  This put the proper load on the alternator.  It made all of the difference in keeping the cars from stalling.
He has an '85. Can you actually feel your idle change even a tiny bit by turning on your headlights??? I've never felt a bit of change on any of my cars by simply turning on headlights. Now if run power windows I see a slight change in headlights, but certainly not a change in idle speed. I respectfully disagree that on an '85, 12volt sytem, your idle speed should change by simply turning on the headlights, and certainly not enough to stall the engine!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 16:54:55 by lsm360 »
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'89 Diplomat S code AHB now with FI 410 C.I.D. smallblock
1979 Power Wagon 150 Short bed Factory 360-4
2010 Charger Pursuit 5.7

Mike

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 18:55:25 »

If turning on headlights causes enough rpm drop to cause problems something else is wrong. And playing on previous replies idle speed or alternator issues could be one of those problems.
Don't forget voltage regulator in there too, altho any time i've had one of those bad it's shown itself by the lights getting vey bright and dim based on engine speed.
Going on the assumption it might be because of an electrical problem there's also bad ground or wire that might be preventing full power from getting somewhere. Which would also show itself at these low idle times. Or weak coil?

Worn timing chain is easy to check.
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Mike

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 18:58:27 »

Or maybe bad computer? I had one fail that under certain conditions I forget now it would cause the car to ping. There's an easy way to test the computer in the service manual that involves running the engine at different speeds and watching what timing does. It varies by year and computer. And being feedback might aswell throw faulty sensor in there too. Service manual would also help diagnose that but for both it needs to be proper year manual.
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lsm360

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2019, 11:25:22 »

Yes Mike the computer is another possibility
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1979 Power Wagon 150 Short bed Factory 360-4
2010 Charger Pursuit 5.7

lsm360

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2019, 15:49:35 »

Maybe a member has a compatible used one left over after a swap that they'll give you for the price of shipping, which should only be about $10.00. Should be worth that to test it and keep as a spare.
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1979 Power Wagon 150 Short bed Factory 360-4
2010 Charger Pursuit 5.7

270SE

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2019, 21:11:26 »

Usually the reason for stalling is choke-related (rarely fixed by just rebuilding a carb) but if it's just when the headlights are on I'd point to something more along the lines of the voltage regulator or weak alternator/battery. The idle speed could be slightly low to supply enough power for the draw but that would likely manifest through issues starting afterwards. The headlights may be a bit of a red herring though, as the weather conditions for the headlights to be activated may require a slightly higher idle speed.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 21:12:29 by 270SE »
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MoparDan

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2019, 13:02:25 »

Thanks everybody for the replys. Lots of stuff to think about.
I guess I'll start with the timing chain: it was replaced on April 30, 2015 so maybe that rules out timing?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 13:03:34 by MoparDan »
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The driver of a 1985 Plymouth Gran Fury Salon called The Cherry Bomb
"Paint it red"-Sammy Hagar
"Its like a carburetor instigator"-Quiet Riot
"I need a shot of gasoline"-Cinderella

MoparDan

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2019, 13:02:51 »

Now the charging system: the voltage regulator was last replaced on December 9, 2018 so its not very old, the battery was replaced on January 26, 2017 and has a 6 year warranty, the alternator was replaced March 7, 2016 about 26k miles ago, but they installed an alt. for an a/c car (with the two belts) The Cherry Bomb is a no a/c car (one belt to the alt.) and the belt does not line up all that well and is believed to be the cause of the water pump failing after only three years...the mechanic who installed it said it would be ok, but everything this mechanic "fixed" has had to be replaced along with other parts he broke in the process...the alternator is the only thing he installed that's still in (never trust a mechanic in New Haven CT...) however from day one (2011) I've noticed that the interior lights-especially the gauges always got a little dim when stopped in gear though seem to get dimmer now. I've had the charging system checked many times over the years and it always checks out fine-it was last checked this past July. The headlights seem somewhat dim lately though they are several years old.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 14:24:48 by MoparDan »
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The driver of a 1985 Plymouth Gran Fury Salon called The Cherry Bomb
"Paint it red"-Sammy Hagar
"Its like a carburetor instigator"-Quiet Riot
"I need a shot of gasoline"-Cinderella

MoparDan

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Re: More stalling problems
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2019, 13:13:22 »

Sorry the lighting isn't better but if you look close you'll see the alternator belt is at alittle bit of an angle
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The driver of a 1985 Plymouth Gran Fury Salon called The Cherry Bomb
"Paint it red"-Sammy Hagar
"Its like a carburetor instigator"-Quiet Riot
"I need a shot of gasoline"-Cinderella
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